Birth details of family in Ireland

[luxor]

Apologies if I'm being dumb, but I never could work out how to search Irish birth records. I believe that there is an office in Dublin but the records are supposed to be online. However, I was never able to find these people.

This is my best compilation of the children of John and Ellen McElroy in County Leitrim;

Kathleen (Catherine) Agnes 1881
Margaret Alice 1884
Patrick James 1886
Eliza A 1889
Josephine 1892
Bernard Joseph 1894
Matilda 1894

John McElroy was originally from County Down. 'McElroy' is common there, but the censuses of 1901 and 1911 show that it was very rare in County Leitrim. Kathleen and Margaret Alice - at least - moved to Liverpool, appearing in 1911 as Catherine Agnes Stott and Margaret Alice Young. Margaret Alice was recorded as 'Maggie A' in Leitrim at the 1901 census. I'd be interested in birth details for any of them, but particularly for Margaret Alice.

The family probably lived in the Parish of Kiltubrid.

[Blue70]

I think the parish of Kiltubbrib is in the Carrick on Shannon district:-

http://www.irelandgenweb.com/irllet/tow ... cashel.htm


These are possible births from that district:-

Name CATHERINE MCALROY
Date of Birth 1879
Group Registration ID 9981287
SR District/Reg Area Carrick-on-Shannon

Name PATRICK MCALROY
Date of Birth 1885
Group Registration ID 9923678
SR District/Reg Area Carrick-on-Shannon

Name ELIZA MCALROY
Date of Birth 1887
Group Registration ID 11839460
SR District/Reg Area Carrick-on-Shannon

Name BERNARD MCELROY
Date of Birth 1892
Group Registration ID 9361821
SR District/Reg Area Carrick-on-Shannon

Name MATILDA MCELROY
Date of Birth 1892
Group Registration ID 10934309
SR District/Reg Area Carrick-on-Shannon

I couldn't find matches in that district for the other two, Margaret and Josephine. The indexes are free to access here:-

http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/c ... search.jsp



Blue

[MaryA]

We have a collection of links to help us with Irish research, these include a description given by our friend Dickiesam from Wexford (RIP), of how to order certificates if you decide you want to. Just don't pay any more than the 6 Euros for a photocopy as that's all you need for research purposes.

http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... 14&t=13912

[Blue70]

This is the application form for BMD on Irish Genealogy ie. A photocopy costs 4 Euros so about £3 in British money:-

http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/images/con ... G_site.pdf


Blue

[luxor]

Many thanks to both Blue and Mary; it's great that you found them and also great information on certificates. After reading the first post I was thinking that I needed to plan a trip to Dublin... but photocopies for a few euros will be fine. I like photocopies - you're seeing the 'real thing'!

I was disappointed not to find Margaret Alice McElroy on the list. Then I remembered that I'd failed my own first rule - 'Keep an open mind'. Although she is shown as being born in County Leitrim on the 1901 census, her husband entered her birthplace as 'Castle Willan County Down' in 1911. Her father came from the Castlewellan area. Even today, people pronounce it 'Castle Willan'. The local district was probably Banbridge, so this one will be worth investigating:

Name MARGARET MCILROY
Date of Birth 1883
Group Registration ID 10787295
SR District/Reg Area Banbridge

The census for the McElroys in 1911 shows 8 children; 7 still living. I'd like to do a general search for McElroy births in Carrick On Shannon, but I think the website has a problem. Initially I was able to pull up the records shown above, but it wont show any McElroys for Carrick On Shannon now. It doesn't even show the area in the list. I think I've cleared all the filters. I'll try again later.

[Blue70]

Name: Catherine Mcalroy
Birth Date: 29 Mar 1879
Birth Place: Deireen, Leitrim, Ireland
Father's name: John Henry Mcalroy
Mother's name: Ellen Keegan Mcalroy

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRSW-CX8


Blue

[Blue70]

There seems to be a problem with accessing some of the index records at the moment:-

http://www.irishgenealogynews.com/2015/ ... h.html?m=1


Blue

[luxor]

Name: Catherine Mcalroy
Birth Date: 29 Mar 1879
Birth Place: Deireen, Leitrim, Ireland
Father's name: John Henry Mcalroy
Mother's name: Ellen Keegan Mcalroy

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRSW-CX8


Blue

John Henry McElroy kept a diary. His granddaughter, a daughter of Catherine/Kathleen, transcribed some of it so I know that he was 'John Henry' and that his wife was Keegan. But I've never seen these on any records before this. This is definitely her. Spellings are not consistent; Deireen/Derreen, McAlroy/McElroy and she appears as Catherine Agnes/Kathleen. But that's her, for sure. I know a grandson will be most pleased to have this information and a photogopy. Now I need to find Margaret Alice. I notice the one in Banbridge is McIlroy, with an 'I', so may not be relevant. I'll need to wait until the site is working properly.

There seems to be a problem with accessing some of the index records at the moment:-

Blue

Thanks for that. I couldn't work out if there was some filter I wasn't clearing!

[luxor]

This is the application form for BMD on Irish Genealogy ie. A photocopy costs 4 Euros so about £3 in British money:-

http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/images/con ... G_site.pdf


Blue

A couple of questions on getting a photocopy:

First; the form seems to require sending full credit card details through the mail (gulp)... Is that safe? Has anyone phoned in their number?

Second; is it best to go for a hard copy or an email copy? Presumably the email copy will be lower resolution?

[Blue70]

I usually post my applications and enter my debit card details on the form. The other option is to fax it. I don't think it can be done by telephone. I used to get my records through the post but now get them e-mailed. My last one from July 2014 was e-mailed as a Word document. It's in the format of an A4 size Landscape BMD certificate. The contents consisted of the text below:-

Áis Taighde - Clár na mBásanna
Research Facility – Death Record

and underneath it was two original image extracts joined together, firstly an extract showing the register headings and secondly the individual death register entry for the person I was interested in. The text can be deleted or replaced using Word and images rearranged. I like to convert the Word file into a PDF so it's easier to zoom in and out of it. The e-mailed copy is lower resolution but I prefer it as I don't have to scan it myself.


Blue

[luxor]

I usually post my applications and enter my debit card details on the form....

The e-mailed copy is lower resolution but I prefer it as I don't have to scan it myself.


Blue

Thanks Blue. They must get lots of forms; no doubt there would be a fuss if there was fraud.
I guess if you've got a clear A4, the resolution is adequate.

[MaryA]

There was a problem with my card on one occasion, don't know why as it had worked the previous day! but they actually telephoned me to say so and they took details from me of another card, so they are very helpful but I don't think there is a telephone number for you to make contact with them.

The resolution has been perfectly adequate and legible and like Blue I would have scanned a paper copy anyway so it just saves the bother.

[Blue70]

Irish Genealogy ie appears to have been rearranging its indexes the other day they appear to be okay now for the marriages but the birth search still does not return McElroy/Carrick on Shannon records as it should do. I found these two matching marriage indexes that must be for the marriage of the parents:-

Name JOHN MCELROY
Date of Event 1873
Group Registration ID N/R
SR District/Reg Area Carrick on Shannon
Returns Year 1873
Returns Quarter 1
Returns Volume No 18
Returns Page No 55

Name ELLEN KEEGAN
Date of Event 1873
Group Registration ID N/R
SR District/Reg Area Carrick on Shannon
Returns Year 1873
Returns Quarter 1
Returns Volume No 18
Returns Page No 55


Blue

[luxor]

I found these two matching marriage indexes that must be for the marriage of the parents:-

Blue

Thanks Blue; John McElroy's diary did record that he married Ellen Keegan in 1873, so that will be it for sure. I'll order a certificate. Ellen Keegan is the ancestor I know least about; I hope a marriage register record may show her father's name and his occupation. That would be interesting in itself and might let me search for her birth.

I noticed that there are some potential children born in Carrick On Shannon before and after Catherine - I didn't know that. But McElroys were so rare in Leitrim, it will be worth investigating these:

__________________________________ 1901_____1911
Mary_______________________1874
John_______________________1876
Kathleen (Catherine) Agnes____1879
Ellen_______________________1883
Margaret Alice_______________ 1884_____17
Patrick James________________1885_____15
Eliza A______________________1887_____12
Bernard Joseph_______________1892_____7_______ 18
Matilda_____________________1892______7_______ 18

The census of 1911 says there were 9 children, so this could be it. I'll order certificates for some of those born in Carrick On Shannon. Still no sign of Margaret Alice in Leitrim but there's a possible in Co Down (Banbridge PLU); I think I need to do a real study of McElroys in County Down. The 1911 census says that one child was dead. I haven't been able to find which one, but it wasn't Kathleen, Margaret Alice, Bernard Joseph or Matilda.

Thanks again - I had zero success with Irish records before this week!

[luxor]

Name: Catherine Mcalroy
Birth Date: 29 Mar 1879
Birth Place: Deireen, Leitrim, Ireland
Father's name: John Henry Mcalroy
Mother's name: Ellen Keegan Mcalroy

Catherine Agnes Mcalroy; usually 'McElroy', but potentially M'Alroy or M'Elroy, married John Stott at Chorlton in 1904. She used her usual 'Kathleen' for the wedding. By the 1911 census they were at 17, Sirdar Street, Edge Hill and had three children. John Stott was killed in WW1 (1915?) and Kathleen re-married - Frederick Ernest Atkinson - in 1919. She died in 1934.

I can't find her on the 1901 census. She could be in Ireland, but more likely in England. I'm guessing that she would be a lodger somewhere. She and her sister Margaret Alice ended up in Liverpool, but I don't know the process. The younger Margaret Alice was still with the family in Leitrim in 1901 (as 'Maggie A'), but not Catherine. Discovering Catherine/Kathleen's occupation in 1901 is likely to be the best clue I'll get as to how they got established. Any help on the 1901 census - or any other information - appreciated!

[Bertieone]

Possible?

Village Rd Oxton

Kate McElroy
22
Birth
abt 1879
Servant
Female
Birth Place
Ireland
Civil Parish
Birkenhead
RG13 P3399 F89 Page1
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &ml_rpos=2

[luxor]

Possible?

Village Rd Oxton

Kate McElroy
22
Birth
abt 1879
Servant
Female
Birth Place
Ireland
Civil Parish
Birkenhead

Tick, tick, tick,.... Thanks Bert! I was aware of a couple of 'Kates', but had it firmly fixed in my head that I'd accounted for both in 1911. I started this morning to find you a link [trial of fmp] proving this couldn't be her... but I can find none. I used to have '1881' in my head as her likely birth year - maybe that didn't sit well with this record. But Blue found her actual DOB was 29th March 1879 - she would just have turned 22. I'm thinking now it could very well be her.

[MaryA]

Oxton would be a good place for a young girl to be looking for work.

[MaryA]

Just read this from a local historian (in Wexford) and the name caught my eye.

Titanic Connections
April 1912 will always be synonymous with one tragic incident, the sinking of the "unsinkable" Titanic. We usually connect this great ship in Ireland with Belfast and then with Cobh as her last point of departure. But we forget the County Wexford connections.
Hugh McElroy whose family came from Tullycanna, County Wexford was the Chief Purser on the Titanic on that voyage. He was a close friend of Captain Smith and was photographed with him at the start of the voyage.
It would have been the Chief Purser who addressed the passengers when disaster struck advising them to forget belongings and to proceed to the lifeboats. Born in Liverpool to parents originally from County Wexford on his marriage to Barbara Ennis in 1910 he moved Harperstown, County Wexford. Prior to that Hugh had served on the 'Britannic' during the Boer War before taking up employment with the White Star Line at the turn of the 20th century. McElroy went down with the ship but his body was recovered later. Reports in The Echo Newspaper say that "when his body was recovered he was wearing his ships uniform, a white jacket" recovered on his person were the ship keys, ten pennies, 50 cents and a fountain pen. The newspaper report on May 25th 1912 stated "McElroy, April 14th on board R.M.S. Titanic, Hugh, beloved husband of Barbara McElroy, Springwood, Wexford".
Paddy McGough an Able Seaman from Duncannon survived the tragedy. He was quoted as saying "No one was killed by the collision. I saw her back break and I heard an explosion". He survived because he was on of the crew assigned to a lifeboat.
There are other intriguing references to Wexford connected crew members. One of these was "a sailor named Connors from Coolcotts" and Laurence Doyle aged 27 whose address was listed as Southampton but believed to have been from Wexford.
There were two Wexford born passengers on The Titanic. Elizabeth Doyle from Bree, known as Lizzie who was travelling to New York. The story goes that she decided to travel Third Class to save almost £3 on the fare. Ironically this saving may have cost her life because 80% of Second Class passengers were saved compared 55% of Third Class. She had lived in Chicago and had returned to Bree to nurse her widowed father through an illness, hence her presence on the Titanic. Her estate amounted to just £10 and legal papers referred to her as "died at sea in an accident to the steamship Titanic".
Lizzie was travelling with her cousin Robert Mernagh of Ballyleigh, Ballywilliam, County Wexford. He was returning to Chicago. He would leave an estate of £ 30. While not huge the sums of money and the various travels across the Atlantic indicate that although travelling Third Class the people in question were in reasonable financial shape for 1912.

Courtesy of Nicholas Rossiter from Little Book of County Wexford but the McIlroy info is Jack O'Leary

[luxor]

Just read this from a local historian (in Wexford) and the name caught my eye.

Thanks Mary. We have no Wexford connection that I know of. My great great grandfather moved from County Down - multitudes of McElroys - to Leitrim, where there were only 2 McElroys outside his family in 1901. That makes searching a lot simpler! I've just checked Wexford; there were about 30 McElroys there. That death would have been a big event in 1912.