John Brown The King's (Liverpool) Regiment 96752

[Katie]

They married at St. Thomas, Wavertree in 1918.

[BarbaraW]

Yes I have a Joseph Brown, bootmaker (son of William) with a daughter Jane the right age.

[BarbaraW]

They married at St. Thomas, Wavertree in 1918.

Sorry Katie, I'm not sure which one you mean??

I am getting into a right tizz here, why oh why do I have the same name of Brown on both sides and common first names too? Next I'll be finding the whole lot all intermarried!!!

[Bertieone]

They married at St. Thomas, Wavertree in 1918.

Sorry Katie, I'm not sure which one you mean??

I am getting into a right tizz here, why oh why do I have the same name of Brown on both sides and common first names too? Next I'll be finding the whole lot all intermarried!!!

Katie is referring to,
John Brown/Elizabeth Banks

[BarbaraW]

Ah thank you, I don't suppose it's online?

[Bertieone]

Ah thank you, I don't suppose it's online?

Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be.

[BarbaraW]

What a shame as I'd only like to see what street she lived in.

Is there any other way of establishing if this is the correct husband?

Has anybody had any joy with the Forces war records site? If so what kind of records are they likely to have to view?

[MaryA]

They appear to give standard history for the regiment your soldier belonged to, together with which medals he should have received, which you should be able to work out anyway depending on year joined up and where served.

If you decide to give them a try and discover more, do let us know.

Previous discussion about the site here http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... ar+records

[BarbaraW]

1898 Elizabeth Banks (daughter of Thomas Henry Banks and Elizabeth Brown) born at 39 Fearnside Street

1901 census 39 Fearnside Street

1911 census 38 Annerly Street


1898 John Brown (son of John Brown and Elizabeth Riley) baptised from Walnut Street

1901 census Spekeland Street

1911 census Copperas Hill (with auntie and uncle)

These places are not a million miles away from each other and Copperas Hill is near to Brownlow Hill.....

Now just how do I find the missing jigsaw piece that will fit it all together?

[BarbaraW]

Soldiers Effects,
Legatee, Widow, Elizabeth.

Was Elizabeth your Nan's name?

I MUST pay more attention. You gave me the answer this morning Bertie but I got sidelined.

It doesn't say Elizabeth mother it says Elizabeth WIDOW!!

[Bertieone]

Barbara,

Did Elizabeth go on to marry Thomas Povall as Elizabeth Brown and children were born, Povall/Banks combination?

[BarbaraW]

They appear to give standard history for the regiment your soldier belonged to, together with which medals he should have received, which you should be able to work out anyway depending on year joined up and where served.

If you decide to give them a try and discover more, do let us know.

Previous discussion about the site here http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... ar+records

Not looking great from the above review and these Mary even the more recent ones from May 2015

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=713127.0

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=669502.0

[BarbaraW]

Barbara,

Did Elizabeth go on to marry Thomas Povall as Elizabeth Brown and children were born, Povall/Banks combination?

She went on to marry Thomas Ellson Povall as Elizabeth Brown, all 4 children including my mother (the only one still alive) are or were Povall.

[BarbaraW]

Soldiers Effects,
Legatee, Widow, Elizabeth.

Was Elizabeth your Nan's name?

Bertie can you give me the link on Ancestry to where you found this please?

[Bertieone]

Barbara,

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/60506 ... sePUB=true

[Bertieone]

I hope this doesn't turn out to confusing.

For John Brown, 1898-1918 to have an Aunt, Ann Brown/Parr, Born 1854, it suggests John Brown 1898-1918 father John Brown, Born 1874, was the brother of Ann Brown/Parr.

With evidence from the marriages, William Brown was the father of Ann Brown/Parr.

John Brown, Born 1874, father of the Soldier John Brown 1898-1918, at his marriage to Elizabeth Riley, 1897, his father was recorded as, James Brown.

The 1881 census, RG11 P3619 F58 Page4

William Brown 1814,
Family
Has 2 Grandsons living with them, John, 1875, William, 1877,

1891, census, RG12 P2913 F39 Page6,
Mary Brown
Ann Brown

John and William are living with them as nephews,

Who are their parents?

Was the John Brown 1874 who married Elizabeth Riley in 1897, the same John on the 1881 census, Who was James the Father?

[BarbaraW]

Thanks for the attachment Bertie.

To make sense of what you have found I am going to have to revert to my old ways with a pen and a piece of paper as looking at complicated things online and trees doesn't work for me.

Thank you for all this help everybody.

[BarbaraW]

Elizabeth Brown remarries 22nd June 1911 at St. Peters a William Hesketh.


Katie, thank you for this, today I finally got around to looking this up on Anc and printing it out. William's father James Hesketh was a coal dealer.

It seems I already had a coal dealer called James Hesketh in my tree So now it looks like (bear with me it's complicated) that Elizabeth Brown (nee Riley) married William Hesketh the sister of Margaret Elizabeth Hesketh who married John Brown (yes another one ) in St Catherine's, Edge Hill on 24 Apr 1905 and looking at the marriage certificates it looks like the witness to Margaret's marriage was her brother William as to me the handwriting looks the same on her certificate and his.

I am still working on trying to find families for them all to see if I can find yet another John Brown who will fit being the father of the soldier who was killed. I did try to order a will last night for the father/grandfather of all these Brown's but something went wrong when I tried to order it and I'm waiting for a response from the site but they only operate Monday to Friday 9 - 5pm.

[Bertieone]

The father of the soldier was John Brown born 1874, he was one of the 2 grandsons, the other William, living with grandfather William Brown, Brownlow Hill, 1881 census.

John & William baptisms,

John Brown, Bn 22 4 1874.
William Brown Bn 9 6 1877
Baptised together, 28 March 1880,
Parents, James & Elizabeth Brown,
Brownlow Hill,
James occupation, Labourer.
This James will be the brother of Ann Brown/Parr.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2196/ ... sePUB=true

[BarbaraW]

That would fit in beautifully Bertie and thank you for taking the time.

Well that's except for one thing, Ann didn't have a brother called James, not unless he eluded every census or maybe I've missed something.

Father William Brown and mother Ellen (nee Hale) were married in 1842 and are in every census from 1851 to 1881 with their children:

Job b 1842 (my direct line)
Joseph b 1844
Elizabeth b 1846
Mary b 1846
Thomas b 1852
Ann b 1854
William b 1855

I've been working on the above males Joseph, Thomas and William but none of them married an Elizabeth.

So just who is James Brown? (besides the American soul singer )

Could he have been born between censuses and somehow slipped the net? Maybe staying with other relatives on census nights?

I do have Job Brown baptised at Walton-on-the-Hill, Lancashire but I don't know how to filter this church (which church? St Mary?) to search for other family baptisms (William and Ellen were married here too). Until this search for the parents of the soldier I wasn't so much bothered about seeking out every detail for every sibling unless necessary for looking at things sideways.

I do find Anc throws out so many hits with a common name like Brown that it's quite overwhelming. I've been doing as Mary says and using the Card Catalogue just putting in the word Liverpool but don't know if this covers places like Walton on the Hill, Kirkdale and Everton for instance........