John Brown The King's (Liverpool) Regiment 96752

[Bertieone]

Hi Barbara,

According to census information I know there is no James recorded as a son, also there is no John recorded as a son, for Ann to be the fallen soldiers aunt, she would have to have a brother John. I think she is really the soldiers great aunt. William having 2 grandsons living with him in 1881 and then the family having them with them in following census as nephews, a further census has William bn 1877 living with Mary as a nephew.

I don't think it can be just a coincidence that the 2 boys on the census information are not the 2 boys from the baptisms, dates matching, addresses matching.

Search for James goes on.

[Bertieone]

Oh Dear,???

Could it be William's daughter Elizabeth who is the connection?
Name:
Elizabeth Brown
Gender:
Female
Marital Status:
Single
Age:
27
Birth Date:
1850
Marriage Date:
18 Apr 1877
Marriage Place:
St. Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father:
William Brown
Spouse:
James Brown
Father, Thomas Brown

[BarbaraW]

Oh dear I never even thought to look for Elizabeth Brown marrying another Brown!!!!

Is the father William the bootmaker of Brownlow Hill?

What about the Elizabeth Riley who married Brown then William Hesketh?

Could this get anymore complicated?

Thank you Bertie I really appreciate your help.

I keep wondering why there is no newspaper clipping from the fallen soldier's wife my grandmother Elizabeth Banks? Or maybe I just haven't found it yet?

Re the newspaper clipping with the photo of the soldier, I didn't note where I got it from and now I can't find it again........

[Bertieone]

Barbara,

I haven't come across an image for James/Elizabeth Brown marriage, so, don't know the occupations.

If this is correct, James Brown/Elizabeth Brown would have been the parents of John Brown, Elizabeth Riley their daughter in Law.

[BarbaraW]

The Elizabeth Brown I have is 5 in the 1851 census (b 1846) but doesn't appear to be on any other censuses I've found living with the family William the bootmaker and his wife from Duckinfield Street or Brownlow Hill.

"Your" Elizabeth was born in 1850, (of course people did lie about their age, some of us still do ) but where is "my" Elizabeth from 1861 onwards?

[Bertieone]

Possible,

1861,
RG9 P2680 F48 Page14
Newton St,
Thomas Molley,
Elizabeth Brown, servant.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &ml_rpos=7

1871
RG10 P3785 F107 Page33
Alx Good
Elizabeth Brown, servant

[BarbaraW]

I came across that one this weekend but thought it odd when most of the children were at home......

[Bertieone]

Perhaps both jobs required living in.

[BarbaraW]

Yes perhaps.....

I will ask on the FB group if somebody can kindly look up that marriage you found to see the father's occupation and hopefully the address not just "Liverpool" as I really only buy certs when necessary, got to watch the pennies.

[BarbaraW]

Well try as I might I cannot find a couple called James and Elizabeth Brown in any census post their marriage.

You'd think with such common names it would be easy peasy but it's beyond my search capabilities. I've tried in Anc, FMP and The Genealogist and have drawn a big fat zero with them all even with a 5 year leeway on the age of Elizabeth.

I have found an Elizabeth Brown still working as a domestic servant though post 1871.............

Do you think it's possibly a transcription error by the LDS?

[Bertieone]

With the 2 boys living with Grandparents, 1881 and with Aunts in the following years, it suggests James may have died around the time of William's birth, at least before the census.

The Elizabeth Brown, servant, 1881 census who might fit was recorded as unmarried ? that doesn't help.

My thoughts are the 2 boys were brought up by the family because both their parents had died early in their lives.

I wouldn't think there was a transcription error.

[BarbaraW]

With the 2 boys living with Grandparents, 1881 and with Aunts in the following years, it suggests James may have died around the time of William's birth, at least before the census.

The Elizabeth Brown, servant, 1881 census who might fit was recorded as unmarried ? that doesn't help.

My thoughts are the 2 boys were brought up by the family because both their parents had died early in their lives.

I wouldn't think there was a transcription error.

Good points Bertie, I was thinking along those lines myself but was hoping for a transcription error . I haven't looked at the BMD indexes but no doubt there will be hundreds if not thousands of Brown's dying in that time frame.

I am going to order the will today of William Brown, I was interested in getting it anyway but now I think it's a necessity as it might shed some light on this complex family!!

[BarbaraW]

I've just downloaded the will. No mention of grandsons, all his money left to his wife and all children mentioned with a small sum to be paid out on the death of his dear wife.

No mention of Elizabeth his daughter.

[BarbaraW]

They married at St. Thomas, Wavertree in 1918.

Katie, can I please ask how you knew which church they were married in?

[MaryA]

Do you not use one of Lancashire's most important resources? http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

[BarbaraW]

Do you not use one of Lancashire's most important resources? http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

Ooops yes I do when I remember to.

[MaryA]

I will ask on the FB group if somebody can kindly look up that marriage you found to see the father's occupation and hopefully the address not just "Liverpool" as I really only buy certs when necessary, got to watch the pennies.

I'm surprised you favour asking the Facebook Group above our forum, I haven't seen that you have received a response to your plea on there.

St Thomas Wavertree 18 July 1918
John Brown 20 Bachelor, Soldier of 107 Cranbourne Road
Father John Brown (deceased) Shoemaker
Elizabeth Banks 20 Spinster, same address
Father Thomas Henry Banks, Drayman
Both signed their names
Witnesses Frank Whitehead and Florence Southern

[MaryA]

Not sure which of the many posts has the mention of this marriage so adding it here

18 April 1877 St Peters, Liverpool
James Brown 29 Bachelor, Labourer, Parliament St
Father Thomas Brown, Labourer
Elizabeth Brown 27 Spinster, same address
Father William Brown, Shoemaker
James made his mark, Elizabeth signed her name
Witnesses were Joseph Brown qand Mary Brown

[BarbaraW]

Mary thank you so, so much!!!! I didn't favour anybody honestly but I've seen the girls on the FB group say that they man the help desk at Liverpool RO on Tuesdays so thought one of them might take pity on me.

I'm soooo happy now to finally start getting this together if Bertie doesn't beat me to it of course.

You guys are simply the best group I've ever been in!!!!

[MaryA]

I've seen the girls on the FB group say that they man the help desk at Liverpool RO on Tuesdays

Yes WE DO, as has been mentioned on this forum frequently.