Baines family, c1837 Knotty Ash

[daggers]

I have a death cert for William Baines who died at 11 months at Knotty Ash Mill on 11 Oct 1837. His father was also William, a miller, of that address.

It would be very helpful if anyone could find more about William, the father. I have drawn blank with the father in the census in 1841 & 51, and with possible baptism/burial of the child.

Daggers

[MaryA]

Not in Gibsons, nor 1827 directory.

The only connection between Baines and Knotty Ash in 1843 directory is

Thomas Baines, printer, stationer, map seller, and publisher of Liverpool Times, Holly Bank, Knotty Ash; shop 10 Castle Street.

In case you can link them the 1841 census has
Holley Bank, Knotty Ash Lane
Thomas Bains 35 Printer No
Fanney 25 No
Vincent 4 Y, Eduard 4 Y, Fredrick 3 Y, Frances 1 Y
HO107; Piece: 520; Book: 9; Civil Parish: Walton On The Hill; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 46; Page: 1

Piece 520 Book 9 Pages 43-46 appear to be the only pages for Knotty Ash https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... -IND-K.htm but these seem to be the only Bain(e)s listed.

[Tina]

Good find Mary, well done...I wonder where the mill was?

[daggers]

Thanks for looking. I am not sure this pair of Williams fit with my other Baines, so will put the cert in the pending pile.

D

[MaryA]

I wonder where the mill was?

I wondered that too, it wasn't mentioned through the folio I checked anyway. Perhaps somebody may find it on a map.

[Blue70]

The area around the Greyhound pub was called Mill Yard perhaps this is where Knotty Ash Mill was situated?

c1890s





Blue

[Tina]

Great map Blue, thank you. Does it list the jam buttie mine??

[Blue70]

Great map Blue, thank you. Does it list the jam buttie mine??

I was tempted to add it to the map but decided against it


Blue

[MaryA]

I was tempted to add it to the map but decided against it

Ah go on, I'd love to know the exact location

To put it in context, a few dwellings away from Thomas Bains is Mary Tomkinson and servants at Springfield Cottage, which is seen on Blue's map, so this must be the present day Eaton Road https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/E+P ... 97763c998c.

Checking the Greyhound Pub, it seems to be on East Prescot Road, so what was that called on an older map?

[Bertieone]

Knotty Ash Mill, also a Tavern, 1848.

[retiringtype]

The windmill at Knotty Ash seems to have been in operation for less than 20 years. It was built in 1820 and gutted by fire in October 1839. The fire was reported in the national press and this item from the Coventry Standard (25 October 1839) is a good example:

[lynne99]

Wow Bert Brilliant find.

[Blue70]

Interesting finds by Bert and retiringtype. The mention of cottages makes me think Mill Yard is a possibility. I'm a bit confused by William Mason's whereabouts on the census records. In 1841 William Mason, Inn Keeper, appears to be near the White Hart Inn at Stanley on Prescot Road as that is the previous entry and the enumeration description says the area is from Beech Street to Poplar Grove:-

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102344096#zoom= ... &layers=BT

In 1851 he is a Beer Seller and the enumeration description this time extends to the Huyton boundary and includes Knotty Ash and Knotty Ash Mill. On a later page there is a James Ellershaw (or Ollershaw), miller, interesting. I wonder if William Mason moved between 1841 and 1851?

1851 Census




Blue

[MaryA]

I was surprised that the area I expected it to be in 1841 didn't name the Mill in the Enumerator's Walk. As in 1851 I expected it to be a landmark, or maybe even more so then.

[retiringtype]

The ruins of the windmill were destroyed in 1840: see this news item from Gore's Liverpool General Advertiser of 14 May 1840:

[Blue70]

The ruins of the windmill were destroyed in 1840: see this news item from Gore's Liverpool General Advertiser of 14 May 1840:

Interesting that the mill is associated with Dovecot here is a map from the 1840s showing Mill Yard and Dovecot. I wonder if references to William Mason's Knotty Ash Mill are to a pub named after the mill? The mill itself was certainly gone by the time of the Slater's Directory 1848 entry for William Mason.




Blue

[Blue70]

Here are some articles from Liverpool Mercury newspaper. After Knotty Ash Mill was destroyed it looks like the name Knotty Ash Mill was retained for that location whether it was later known as Mill Yard or refers to some other location I don't think we can say at the moment.

Fri 15 Sep 1826




Fri 5 Aug 1864




Fri 22 Dec 1876





Blue

[MaryA]

Thanks for those Blue, it ties in a very distant bit of my tree too.

The William Mason you have mentioned married Ellen Whittle on 3 October 1835 at St George, Everton, possibly related to the Whittle and Askew mentioned in your first newspaper article.

The tenuous relationship to my line is that William's father, also William married Isabella Forshaw on 10 November 1794 at St Mary, Walton on the Hill, and this Isabella was sister to Hannah Forshaw who married Richard Lunt on 11 February 1805 at St James, Toxteth Park, (these are my 3x Great Grandparents) and their daughter Margaret Lunt was noted as "cousin" and "Assistant", presumably to the beerseller William Mason, in the 1861 census.

So I'm very much appreciating the geographical detail in this post, although I fear we have strayed a bit from Dagger's Baines.

[retiringtype]

Back to Baines the miller:

There's a Henry Bains, miller, in Garston village in 1841 census. Aged 40, wife Margaret 38, children Henry 7 and John 2.

The only contemporary references I have found to a miller named William Baines concern a man in Freiston (Lincolnshire) accused of stealing 3 bags of corn in December 1836. EDIT It appears that he was given 7 years' transportation so we can rule him out.

[daggers]

Although none of the clues in this thread have brought little William Baines closer to my family of Baines, I have really enjoyed the replies.
The earliest of my lot found so far were spelled Bains and Beans, in the Childwall registers, depending on the original or the BT copy.

Daggers