63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Post by **ChrisAnson** » 31 Dec 2016 16:11

Dear All,
This is my first visit to the forum, and I hope someone with local knowledge can help here.
My great-great-grandfather William Woods (ca. 1829-1891) was a schoolmaster in Everton. His later life is well documented, but I am having great difficulty tracking down his early life. The earliest firm record I have is his marriage to Annie Morris, in 1853 at St George's Walton-on-the-Hill, in which he is described as "schoolmaster". He and Annie both gave their addresses as 63 Gregson Street, but apart from that the only other info here is that William was aged 24, and his father (also a William) was a book-keeper. Later census records give his place of birth as either Everton or Liverpool, so he must be out there somewhere!
Obviously the 1851 census record for 63 Gregson Street is the place to start. Gregson Street fell between two enumeration districts, 1s and 1ap, in 1851. I have accessed 1s via Ancestry, and number 63 is in the other half. However enumeration district 1ap is for some reason not available on Ancestry. Does anyone know how one can get hold of the 1851 returns from 1ap, or have they been lost? Any help here would be gratefully received!
The only William Woods in the 1851 Liverpool census of about the right age was living at 17 Codrington Street, West Derby, but this William was a tin-plate worker living with his uncle, and it seems highly unlikely that anyone could go from a tin-plate worker to a fully-qualified schoolmaster in two years, but that hasn't stopped this record being attached to "my" William in quite a few Ancestry trees...

Anyway, if anyone has information or suggestions, it would be much appreciated, as this has been bugging me for quite some time!

Happy New Year,
Chris Anson
Karlsruhe, SW Germany

Post by **lynne99** » 31 Dec 2016 17:03

Might be some help
From Lancashire Online Parish Clerks
Baptism: 14 May 1826 St Mary, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire, England
William Woods - Son of William Woods & Mary
Born: 30 Apr
Abode: Walton
Occupation: Blacksmith
Baptised by: T. Moss Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1835, Page 106, Entry 847
Source: LDS Film 1647560

Baptism: 21 Oct 1827 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
William Edward Woods - [Child] of William Woods & Ellen
Abode: Freemasons Row (This is near Liverpool centre.)
Occupation: Wheelwright
Baptised by: J. Pulford Curate
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1828, Page 10, Entry 78
Source: LDS Film 1656419

Baptism: 13 Jan 1829 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
William Woods - [Child] of William Woods & Elizabeth
Abode: Fontenoy St:
Occupation: Cooper
Baptised by: William Goddard, Offg. Curate
Register: Baptisms 1828 - 1829, Page 209, Entry 1666
Source: LDS Film 93877

Baptism: 30 Mar 1829 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
William Woods - [Child] of William Woods & Jane
Abode: Summer Street
Occupation: Shipwright
Baptised by: Th. Johnson Curate
Register: Baptisms 1828 - 1829, Page

Baptism: 28 Mar 1830 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
William Woods - [Child] of William Woods & Mary
Abode: Leigh St
Occupation: Book Keeper
Baptised by: P. Bulmer Curate
Register: Baptisms 1829 - 1830, Page 322, Entry 2574
Source: LDS Film 93878

I will look through other bits and see if there are any other ideas, Hope this helps

Post by **MaryA** » 31 Dec 2016 18:11

Hi and welcome to the forum. We have come across bride and groom having the same address very often, usually given to save the cost of two sets of banns if they lived in different parishes.

Just to let you know that we are looking and will check back when and if we find anything, but it would seem that the last baptism that lynne99 found looks to be about right, although I've not come across any other children baptisms with the same parents.

Post by **Bertieone** » 31 Dec 2016 20:39

MaryA wrote:Hi and welcome to the forum. We have come across bride and groom having the same address very often, usually given to save the cost of two sets of banns if they lived in different parishes.

Liverpool Mercury, 25 March, 1853.
March 14 of Consumption, aged 28, John, eldest son of Mrs Morris, Gregson St, Everton

Post by **louis** » 01 Jan 2017 01:11

1851 Census:- HO 107/2190/242/7/22

49 Mill Road Everton

Elizabeth Morris 48 Head Mar Shrewsbury Domestic Duties
Charles Morris 20 Son U Birmingham Joiner
Annie Morris 19 Daur U Birmingham School Mistress
Elizabeth Morris 17 Daur U Birmingham Pupil Teacher
Mary Morris 14 Daur U Birmingham Scholar
James Hisbet? 34 Lodger U Edinburgh, Scotland Teacher of Singing

Elizabeth and Charles are the witnesses at Annie's marriage in 1853. Father may be deceased.
_________________

Louis

Post by **Bertieone** » 01 Jan 2017 06:15

Looks like Gregson St was the Morris family home and William used the address for his marriage.

Post by **MaryA** » 01 Jan 2017 08:31

Something to keep on file as it's the only one I have found with the correct occupation.

1851 35 Gt Avenham Street, St John's, Preston
Thomas Wood Head M 35 School Master Salop Condover
Mary Wife 44 Lancashire Liverpool
Mary E daur 7 Scholar Lancashire Preston
Benjamin son 5 " " "
William Wood brother U 23 Schoolmaster Salop Condover
Elizabeth Ashley Serv U 14 House Servant Salop Cross House
HO107 Piece number 2265 Folio 539 Page 42

This brother is not with the family in 1861, having said that the brother's occupation has now changed to farmer.

Post by **Bertieone** » 02 Jan 2017 06:25

Chris,

So far I've failed to find a William Woods, Tin plate worker in later census'
Where has he gone?
The possibility exists as always, he was recorded incorrectly?

The obvious link with the Hunter family, 1851, is the marriage of William Woods/ Mary Hunter, 1828, Liverpool.

If accepting he was once a Tin Plate worker, the second paragraph (link)
http://www.liverpool-schools.co.uk/html ... ining.html

"Anyone could set up their own school"

The jump from Tin Plate worker to Schoolmaster is possible. Perhaps Teaching Qualifications as we see them today were not needed.

The 1871 census has him recorded as "Schoolmaster employing 4 ???" possibly, Apprentice Students.
His son Arthur, 16, Assistant Schoolmaster

Perhaps this means a private school rather than state school?

Post by **retiringtype** » 02 Jan 2017 08:35

In 1860 Gore's directory, William Woods is listed as a "teacher at the Collegiate Institution" (address 43 St George's Hill, Everton)

That directory also lists a William Woods, book keeper, but I am having trouble finding him in the censuses. 15 Oak Vale, Broad Green

Post by **MaryA** » 02 Jan 2017 08:51

Although the National Archives in their wisdom removed the searches for street indexes from their census years, it is still for now, possible to check the street names for some years - this is 1861 for Liverpool but Oak Vale doesn't appear to be listed but Oak Terrace is - but no William Woods
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... _Index_M-O

Post by **Bertieone** » 02 Jan 2017 08:55

Seen that RT
43 St Georges Hill was uninhabited in 1861, in 61, William Woods was at St Peters National School, Sackville St? I thought it might be the same person but thought it might have been a bit of a backward step for a teacher.

Post by **retiringtype** » 02 Jan 2017 09:10

The 1861 census for Oak Vale is in RG9/2736 starting at page 5 (folio 105). No William Woods there as far as I can see.

Post by **retiringtype** » 02 Jan 2017 09:58

1873 Gore's lists: Woods, William, Day & Boarding School, 19 Lytton Street, residence 5 Cresswell Street, Everton.

Post by **Bertieone** » 02 Jan 2017 10:20

The 1871 census has him recorded at 47 Everton Rd, next to 17 Lytton Street.
The property confused someone.

Post by **Bertieone** » 02 Jan 2017 10:45

Post by **retiringtype** » 02 Jan 2017 11:06

There is a web page on the Everton Road Academy, later Marlborough College, Tuebrook http://www.postsite.co.uk/marl/history/

Post by **retiringtype** » 02 Jan 2017 11:27

Just a possibility... a change of name?

In 1851 there's a William Walmsley aged 20, an apprentice teacher at the Bluecoat School. (Ancestry has the name as Welinsley). The headmaster's name is Wood.

Post by **Bertieone** » 02 Jan 2017 11:50

retiringtype wrote:There is a web page on the Everton Road Academy, later Marlborough College, Tuebrook http://www.postsite.co.uk/marl/history/

Good find, RT

10 Marlborough was the address daughter Annie used when marrying Robert Dennis Wilkinson, father Frederick Wilkinson, who took over the school.

No mention of tin basher, either totally the wrong chap or recording error?

Post by **retiringtype** » 02 Jan 2017 12:27

There's a tree on Ancestry that picks the tinplate worker as the schoolmaster

http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/69134 ... 6972/facts

Post by **MaryA** » 02 Jan 2017 12:59

Despite the difference in occupation, the other clues seem to point to mystery solved, good going lads

Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851

Re: 63 Gregson Street, Everton, in 1851