53 GT HOWARD STREET

[HOLLY]

Hi - Can anyone assist please - I'm interested to know if 53 Gt Howard Street was a dwelling or a pub in 1917 - Thanks in advance - Holly

[daggers]

Not a direct answer, but in 1909 it was the Alexandra Vaults, owned by R.Cain & Sons Ltd., John Thompson , manager.
I suspect it remained as a pub for some years afterwards.
D

[HOLLY]

Hi Daggers - thanks for that! I wonder if the place has 'history' - it was given as abode for 2 ancesters who were buried within days of each other, age 38 and 36.

No doubt if it has someone on the forum will let me know!

Holly -

[dickiesam]

Hi Daggers - thanks for that! I wonder if the place has 'history' - it was given as abode for 2 ancesters who were buried within days of each other, age 38 and 36.

No doubt if it has someone on the forum will let me know!

Holly -

Hi Holly,
2 years after Dagger's find, it is still a pub and John and Elizabeth Thompson are still there with at least 9 children.
My first thought about those deaths was the Spanish Flu epidemic but that didn't start until 1918, the following year. I think the only way to solve that 'puzzle' would be to get death certs for cause of death.

DS

[HOLLY]

Thank you Dickiesam, I shall send for a death cert, it's a mystery certainly and it just popped up out of the blue!

Holly -

[jan44]

Hi Holly,

I can't help with 1917 but the 1914 directory has "Alexandra Vaults" - John Watson.

Jan

[Tina]

Hi Holly
If you give us the names, they may be listed in Anc@ under their Catholic burials.

Tina

[HOLLY]

Thank you all for your interest and help! I have got the info from the new Catholic stuff from Anc - that's how I found these two burials within days of each other. A married couple named Darcy.

I wonder what happened

Thanks again everyone - Holly

[dickiesam]

Hi Holly'
Am intrigued! Almost asked 'giz a clue'!

From FreeBMD these are the only 'Liverpool' Darcy deaths in 1917, all in December as it happens....
Deaths Dec 1917:
Darcy, Albert - 2 - W.Derby - 8b - 680.
Darcy, Francis A - 38 - Liverpool - 8b - 53.
Darcy, John W - 46 - W.Derby - 8b - 337.
Darcy, Margaret - 74 - Toxteth Park - 8b - 242.
Darcy, Martin V - 72 - Liverpool - 8b - 118.

So now I am puzzled as well as intrigued. There's Francis Darcy aged 38, death registered under Liverpool but no 36 year old. The 36 year old Darcy who is supposed to have been buried within days of the 38 year old, I would have assumed to have been registered in the same district and on the same page.

Six years earlier, back in 19**, the only Francis of the right age in all counties is a sea-going steward married to Maria Russell and living with her widowed mother Mary Russell in Shotwick St. They have 2 children. Oddly, Maria Darcy would have been 36 in 1917 but there's no Maria [or Mary] in the GRO Death Index. Now I'm even more puzzled!

DS

[HOLLY]

Hi Dickiesam - I also saw that entry and was interested to note that Marias brother was a Barman. I couldnt find a death for her on the registers but when I looked at the entry on Anc there she was - I have the plot no. but unfortunately on the Yew Tree site that lists lots of MI's the one I want isnt listed - always the way!

And an other mystery - what was she doing in a pub (I must take after her) !!

Holly -

[Tina]

Hi Holly
Excuse my ignorance, one listed in Yew Tree & the other in Ford same grave number. Have I got this right?
Thanks me dear.
Tina

[jan44]

Holly.

I think I may have worked this out for you.

On 3rd Dec 1917 Maria Darcy made a payment for the burial, those books are payment books and not the burials. If you look in the column, Maria paid £3.14.

Jan

[dickiesam]

Holly.

I think I may have worked this out for you.

On 3rd Dec 1917 Maria Darcy made a payment for the burial, those books are payment books and not the burials. If you look in the column, Maria paid £3.14.

Jan

Excellent spotting Jan. That explains why Maria's death isn't in the GRO Index for 1917!

DS

[jan44]

Thanks DS,

I think the records that have been put on the anc site have been a bit mixed up, and some of them are the cemetery order books.

I found this leaflet on the Liv RO website.

http://www.liverpoolinprint.org.uk/guid ... ecords.pdf

Jan

[HOLLY]

Hi Jan44, great detective work! Thank you very much. Though it does put paid to my theory of gin swigging, ship jumping, pistol shooting arsonists!

I shall order his death cert.

Thanks again one and all !!

Holly -

[Tina]

Hi Jan
I'm sure Mary wrote in another link about the 2 books in Anc## now that you mention it.
Well done.
Just to add, I don't think there would be too many, there is a Mrs Maria D'arcy in 1938 Directory 8 Shotwick St Fairfield Lpool 7.
(I think this was Edge Lane area)

Tina

[roberta]

Hi - Can anyone assist please - I'm interested to know if 53 Gt Howard Street was a dwelling or a pub in 1917 - Thanks in advance - Holly

Hi Holly, I have been researching the D'arcy Family and have a Francis D'arcy married to Maria D'arcy. My understanding passed through the family was that Elizabeth and Philip D'Arcy had 5 sons and lost 4 of them to WW1 but after doing some reasearch I'm not so sure that's correct. Did you etablish Francis D'Arcy's death only I got as far finding out he died outside a pub can you confirm is that correct?

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Holly is a regular on the forum so she should receive notification that you have posted and pop along to answer you soon.

[HOLLY]

Hi Mary and hello to member (sorry I can't find a name to respond to). I, unfortunately have to work these days and I'm behind on my FHS but to add a brief reply, Philip married Elizabeth and had 15 children, 6 boys!

More from me tomorrow when I sort some papework, but thank you to responding to my query!

Holly

[roberta]

Hi Mary and hello to member (sorry I can't find a name to respond to). I, unfortunately have to work these days and I'm behind on my FHS but to add a brief reply, Philip married Elizabeth and had 15 children, 6 boys!

More from me tomorrow when I sort some papework, but thank you to responding to my query!

Holly

Hi Holly wow they had 6 boys I didn't know that. Thanks for that update. Sorry new to this, my name is Bobbi (Female)