Thomas Joseph Riley the second

Post by **riley** » 20 Jan 2012 16:29

Thomas Joseph Riley 11 was born in Dublin in 1879. I have his marriage cert in Nottinham. 1901 census has them living in Derby and 1911 census he is in the Bridewell (on a charge of being drunk
and disorderly!) and the rest of the family are visiting friends, so I have no home address.
Like his father he was a cooper as was his son Thomas Joseph Riley 111 who was born in Nottingham in 1899. As I have no address I cannot check the electoral registers for the famiyl's whereabouts but has anyone got directories they could look up?
The birth cert for his last child Isabella May has the address 52 Lowell Street, Walton (born 1909) but this house number is not listed in the 1911 census.
I shall be grateful fro any help on this. In addition I do not have any info on his death or for his wife Ethel Gertrude.

Post by **Hilary** » 20 Jan 2012 17:28

The 1911 on Ancetsry shows Ethel and her children as visitors to Eliza Matilda Nuttall at 34 Netherfield Road North Everton Liverpool.

That is
Ethel 31 married 13 years had 5 children 3 living 2 died
Thomas Joseph her son 11
Agnes her daughter 9
isabella May her daughter 1
all 4 bn Nottingham

Post by **dickiesam** » 20 Jan 2012 18:15

Hi Riley,
From what you have said about Thomas, I'd say there was no 'family home' when the census was taken in 1911. His wife and their 3 children were probably relying on the charity of friends, neighbours or relations at 34 Netherfield Road, Everton, Liverpool. The close-knit communities of times past often did such things.

For the crew this is his marriage:
Marriages Sep 1898 - Nottingham - 7b - 565: Riley, Thomas Joseph and Maddock, Ethel Gertrude.

There do not appear to be any Riley nee Maddock births after Isabella was born in 1910. There were 2 other children, Thomas J(oseph) bn 1900 Nottingham and Agnes bn 1902 in Nottingham.

There is a 'local' marriage for a 'junior' Thomas J:
Marriage: RILEY, Thomas J and KINSLEY, Margaret.
Registration District: Liverpool.
Year/qtr of registration: 1919 / Jan-Feb-Mar
Volume No: 8B; Page No: 9.

There are 11 Riley nee Kinsley births up to 1945 in Liverpool.
Edit.. Since a following post ruled out this marriage I have removed the list of the children.

Possibly not all to Thomas and Margaret or maybe this is why they had no more....
Death: RILEY, Thomas J
Registration District: Liverpool North
Year/qtr of Registration: 1941 / Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death: 40
Volume No: 8B; Page No: 629.

The earliest marriage for an Isobella M Riley is this:
Marriage: RILEY, Isabella M and McGOUN, Henry
Registration District: Carlisle, Cumberland.
Year/qtr of registration: 1948 / Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume No: 1A; Page No: 127.

Because there appear to be 2 children born to this marriage, in 1950 and 1959, so it looks as though this Isabella isn't 'our's' and she didn't marry in England or Wales.

Dinner gong [shout] has just sounded... have to go!

DS

Post by **riley** » 20 Jan 2012 18:42

Thank you for all this info. However the marriage to Margaret Kinsley is not the correct one,. I have the marriage cert and although it is for a Thomas Joseph Riley his father is William George Riley which is not correct.

Post by **riley** » 20 Jan 2012 18:44

Correction the marriage was for a Thomas James Rriley

Post by **dickiesam** » 20 Jan 2012 19:43

RE:

The birth cert for his last child Isabella May has the address 52 Lowell Street, Walton (born 1909) but this house number is not listed in the 1911 census.

Two years after Isobella's birth #52 Lowell Street is occupied by the Tyms family, Henry, Louisa, and their daughter Louisa Margaret. Looks like the Riley family were ONFA [of no fixed abode] when the census was taken on the 2nd of April.

There's a death that might be relevant to your search. The age is spot on:
Death: RILEY, Agnes
Registration District: Liverpool North
Year/qtr of registration: 1935 / Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death: 33
Volume No: 8B; Page No: 477

DS

Post by **riley** » 20 Jan 2012 19:45

Thank you dickiesam for the death you spotted. I am going to take a punt and order the cert in the hope it si the right one certainly the age at death is correct.

Post by **dickiesam** » 20 Jan 2012 19:49

riley wrote:Thank you dickiesam for the death you spotted. I am going to take a punt and order the cert in the hope it si the right one certainly the age at death is correct.

Just found another one! See amended post. You were too quick off the mark.

DS

Post by **riley** » 20 Jan 2012 20:09

I have the birth cert for my Agnes but there is no middle name.
. She was born in Nottingham 4th November 1900, so name and age not quite right.

i will have to think about tht one.

Post by **dickiesam** » 20 Jan 2012 20:20

riley wrote:I have the birth cert for my Agnes but there is no middle name.
. She was born in Nottingham 4th November 1900, so name and age not quite right.

i will have to think about tht one.

I was using the age from 1911 for Agnes. So that was 2 years out and Thomas' was out by a year.

Because of those differences in ages given on the householder form, I suspect the informant of the death may not have known the correct age as well. Often it was a matter of best guesstimate back then, before exact proven dates of birth were required as is now the case.

DS

Post by **colinriley** » 09 Dec 2016 08:54

Hi,

I have a bit of information to add to this, such as his whereabouts after 1911, childeren born 1911 and after (including my father).

Is anyone still following this thread?

Regards,

Post by **MaryA** » 09 Dec 2016 09:49

Hi and welcome to the forum.

The original poster is still a member of the Forum so hopefully he will be notified that you have replied to his message and pop along to speak to you.

Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum