For queries within the area of Lancashire between the Ribble and the Mersey.
This board covers the areas of all our Groups - Liverpool, Southport, Warrington, Skelmersdale, Leigh and Widnes.
I populated my family tree on ancestry with William as father and Anne as mother with the children listed in the 1861 census It has not been enlightening. Even other family trees have no mention of my Harriet.
I have prepared a request for the birth certificate from The Superintendent Registrar of the Denbighshire South District. Unfortunately, this will take some time as they only do it through the post. I will report back once I have news. I think the previous request took about a month.
Also, I ran into the abbreviations J.A.S. and J.F.M. as shown below Do you know what they mean?
Annie Hughes
Birth J.A.S. 1851 in Ruthin, Denbighshire, Wales
Death J.F.M. 1899 in Toxteth Park, Liverpool, Lancashire, England.
Marriage: O.N.D.
The local Registrars submitted their information to the General Register Office (G.R.O.) on a quarterly basis and those quarterly returns were compiled into a national index by the G.R.O., within that index J.F.M. is January February, March after which the sequence is obvious.
The local Registrar's records effectively pre-date the returns they submitted to the G.R.O and they are seperately referenced by the individual Registrars. The two seperate indexes originate from the same initial sources but they cannot be matched up, hence the G.R.O. reference is no use to the local Registrar and vice-versa. The copying and recompiling involved in transferring the information does mean that the indexes are not always 100% reliable.
Cupcake wrote:Are you all professional genealogists?
I don't think there is a pro-genealogist on the forum. I am definitely an amateur and for me it is a serious and rewarding fun hobby. And I enjoy the craic.
DS
Member # 7743
RIP 20 April 2015
Emery, McAnaspie/McAnaspri etc, Fry, McGibbon/McKibbion etc, Burbage, Butler, Brady, Foulkes, Sarsfield, Moon [Bristol & Cornwall]. Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
It's extremely unusual for there to be no occupation given for the father on a marriage certificate. Does it give one for John?
I presume you have a copy of the certificate obtained from the Registrar. It might be worth having the church register checked to see if that has more info.
I learned that Harriet's father is William from the England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940. I do not have a formal marriage certificate. I will have to order that to help in this search.
Her husband, John Radley's (1856), death certificate lists him as a Copper Labourer. The 1881 England Census list Occupation: Chemical Lab (manuf. chem). Died at 63 of 1) Influenza, 2) Bronchopneumonia, which seems common for the industry in the area where he worked. All our other family members lived to their 80s and now 90s; my own father died at 92.
The craic is good especially since my husband has no interest in my research -- although his ears prick up when it's about his family.
Off to Greenwood Cemetery. I have been lucky to find many gravemarkers for my family on findagrave Since I am in that area to visit a (living) friend, thought I would stop by the cemetery to take a few photos for others. It's a beautiful cemetery with interesting grave sites. Has a website if you google greenwood cemetery brooklyn.
Hi to our ex-colonial cousin....
You probably already know this tip about buying BMD certificates. Never ever buy from an online genealogy research site that offers an ordering service. You will end up paying at least twice the price the GRO charge [£9.25 inc postage = abt $14.50] and often considerably more.
DS
Member # 7743
RIP 20 April 2015
Emery, McAnaspie/McAnaspri etc, Fry, McGibbon/McKibbion etc, Burbage, Butler, Brady, Foulkes, Sarsfield, Moon [Bristol & Cornwall]. Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Yes and the GRO don't charge any extra just because you live outside England.
Unless anybody is heading their occupations from us, I don't believe any of us are professionals, we have just learned a few short cuts during our researches over the years and often either intuition or logical narrowing down (such as Dickiesam did) to identify a probable entry in the censuses.
However, there is at least one person on the forum who has taken a course providing a qualification in genealogy, and I feel that this has benefitted them in giving them, amongst other things, insights into additional sources that might be worth searching for.
If you were interested I'm sure there would be a short course, perhaps an evening class, available near to where you live.
MaryA Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives
In earlier message I said Old Lane was modern day Hough Green Road, Sorry but this was wrong. Old Lane is now the last section of Liverpool Road. Before Netherley Road on the B517.
A Ordnance Survey map dated 1893 shows a row of nine terraced houses in Old Lane, named Banks Buildings while in the 1901 and 1911 census they appear to be called Mosses cottages. The Radley's lived I think in the middle of the Terrace. One of the Radleys Joseph in the 1891 census is listed as a Blacksmith. He may have been employed at one the chemical factories, but equally he may have been employed at a well known blacksmiths shop close to the Hammer and Pincers pub near by. The blacksmiths was run by the Charles Parker who also lived in the Terrace.
I went to the Hough Green Social Club as it now is, last night, there is a Painting inside of the building as it would have been when it was a school. If you wish Elizabeth I could photograph it and email you a copy.
cheers chris
MaryA Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives
'Tis a lovely offer indeed! Although it will only be a guess, my guess is that he and his sisters (I hope for them) would have attended the school across the street.
Thanks for the modification on Old Lane. I looked on-line for the Ordnance Survey map dated 1893, but have had no luck. Would you have a link to that? But it is fun to "drive" down the google map to see it. When I was in Liverpool last year, time did not allow for me to see any of this and that is why I intend to come solo next year.
Can't say much about Joseph yet. Since my trip down the rabbit hole, I am determined to have documentation on all family members before declaring my allegiance. But I think you are correct that he was a blacksmith. I do know from the 1901 Census that my Great Aunt Edith (at 14 yrs) was a general servant at Hammer and Pincers pub as well as my Great Aunt Annie (16 yrs), who was a maid at Big Spring Farm in Tarbock. I read the book by Margaret Powell, "Below Stairs" to get some idea of what that might have been like, but am not sure they continued their work in service once the economy improved.
And I did not realize that about the GRO. I have avoided the extra fees by mailing my requests. So tip appreciated.
Class would be great and I should do. Probably useful to help one stay focused.
Onward before I have to return to service tomorrow.
I have ordered the marriage certificate for John Radley and Harriet Hughes. I have ordered the birth certificate for Harriet Hughes using the St. Asaph, Flintshire details - the BMD has it being recorded March 1857. They should arrive in the next two weeks. Brilliant!
PS I did know about the GRO as I had ordered from them previously. Had forgotten how easy this is. If there is one thing I would recommend to anyone starting their family tree, it would be to order the birth, marriage and death certificates from the start.
Cupcake wrote:I have ordered the marriage certificate for John Radley and Harriet Hughes. I have ordered the birth certificate for Harriet Hughes using the St. Asaph, Flintshire details - the BMD has it being recorded March 1857. They should arrive in the next two weeks. Brilliant!
PS I did know about the GRO as I had ordered from them previously. Had forgotten how easy this is. If there is one thing I would recommend to anyone starting their family tree, it would be to order the birth, marriage and death certificates from the start.
My apologies Bets! I should have posted this earlier for you. Because the 1857 birth for Harriet is one we/you are not certain about, the former Reference Checking facility on the GRO site would have been most useful as you would have entered the father's name. Unfortunately the GRO withdrew that facility a couple of years ago but there is a way you can still enter checking details.
When you go to the GRO site and get to the 'Certificate choice' page, after ticking the relevant Birth or Marriage Cert box there's a question at the bottom asking whether the GRO reference is known. Tick the 'No' box and just enter the year of the birth you are interested in, even if you do know the Index Reference [Qtr, Volume and Page numbers, etc].
The 'Delivery address details' page comes next, and after that a new page will open allowing you to enter the names of the parents including the mother's maiden name in the case of a birth cert application. The GRO will do a search 1 year either side of the given year. If they don't find the cert with the exact details you specified they will only charge a search fee of about £4.50 and refund the balance.
DS
Member # 7743
RIP 20 April 2015
Emery, McAnaspie/McAnaspri etc, Fry, McGibbon/McKibbion etc, Burbage, Butler, Brady, Foulkes, Sarsfield, Moon [Bristol & Cornwall]. Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Got it. I was pleasantly surprised when Harriet (St. Asaph, Flintshire) popped up. Fingers crossed we get some good information. I was reading Mike Royden's book on Tracing Your Liverpool Ancestors and learned - among many other things - that marriage certificates after 1837 will give us all that juicy information about the parents.
Are you aware of any books written specific to Ditton or does it get lumped into a book on the area?
MaryA Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives
A member of the Widnes group, has done a book specifically on Ditton/Hough Green, Unfortunately it is only in digital format, I am still waiting to obtain a copy. She is rather busy at the moment with family obligations. I am not sure when she will be available. Other than that I only know of references in other books on Widnes and its area.
The 1893 map incidentally is available on cd from Digital Archives Ass. They appear to assert their copyright and prohibit posting any part on the web.
We respect copyright conditions. I wonder if the Old Maps site http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html might prove useful as they appear to have one for the area for 1894-1896.
MaryA Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives
