Military records

[Minera]

Hi I am trying to get any military information or records for

Robert Oliver Morris b) 1895 Narberth Pembrokeshire parents George + Martha
1st Welsh Horse regiment which became Welsh fusiliers

He had 3 stripes so Sargent ?
I have one photo of him and very little knowledge other than his birth, the19901 census , he was injured in ww1 or ww2 he then left Wales
Any help re his military career /records would be a great help
Thank you

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I don't know how much assistance our forum members will be able to give you as Welsh military records may well be out of their area of knowledge, they tend to know a lot more about the Liverpool and Lancashire Batallions etc., however I hope somebody might be able to point you in the direction of where to look.

[Mark Abbott]

Sadly, I can't find any Robert Oliver Morris serving with the Wesh Horse. There are many with the name Robert Morris who served with RWF.
Mark

[daggers]

Hello Minera
The Welsh Horse was formed at the outbreak of WW1 as a Territorial unit and three battalions, 1/1, 2/1 and 3/1 were formed.
Only 1/1 went overseas and it served at Gallipoli, then in Egypt. It merged with the Montgomeryshire Yeomanry to form the 25th Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, who served in France from May 1918.
I cannot see any medal index cards for a Morris with initials RO, but there are plenty of Roberts in RWF. Middle names were often omitted.
Have you any other clues? 2/3 of all records were destroyed in the WW2 blitz, so his may not have survived.
As you say, three stripes on the upper arm means sergeant.
D

[Minera]

Thank you, I'm finding military very hard in general as know so little about it. This is particularly difficult as I knew nothing of Robert ( bob) until I was sent the photo after starting my tree.
My childhood memory was that his brother Clement Edward Morris was a decorated war hero, we had photo and news clipping showing him with multiple wounds and the loss of a leg. I met uncle Clem in London and am sure it was him with a false limb. I no longer have the photo and clipping, have now been told that this related to Robert not Clem.

I know Clem lived in London and have records of his death am told Robert went on to Bedfordshire and lost touch with his siblings. I'm afraid that's all I know. Have not found records for either of them, but have not found military records for any of my family.
Those in Liverpool were in the Kings own but they are ww2 so don't think they are released yet .
Thank you

[Hilary]

If you think Robert was still a serving soldier post 1922 his records will still be with the Army.

[Minera]

So only those who were discharged after WW1 and did not re enlist have records available?
Or is it that if he stayed in the forces or re enlisted it may be better to try to get the records that way?
Sorry but I did say I was hopeless at military it's like a Foriegn language to me, I am trying to learn as almost all our men served in army or navy but I don't yet have a single record to show xx

[daggers]

Have you looked in the 1911? A Robert M born Narberth, aged 15 was a cowman on a farm at ??? In S Wales. (I cannot read my notes.) It was not a family farm, as he is listed with employees.
Farm men would be useful in yeomanry units.
No progress on his army links yet.
D

[Minera]

Yes I think that's him as have the rest of the family and he is not with them. They were very rural so mostly farm work. They originally farmed themselves but later all would have worked for others. It's the military stuff I can't get my head around my mum and dad were in the Navy and wrens, so can apply for their records. But these 3 men are a mystery I only met Clem the once in abt 1957 he died a few years later. Have all the sisters but having had no knowledge of Robert until recently am now in a quandary as I am convinced he was the one who lost his leg but another elderly cousin thinks it was Robert. Without the photo and news clipping I'm in no position to argue.

[Hilary]

The Army records of men serving in the Army in the First World War were in a building that was bombed in the Second World War. Many records were totally destroyed others fire damaged. There are varying estimates of how many survived and it's possibly as low as 30percent. Far more Pension records survive. What exists as the service records and the pension records are filmed and available on Ancestry.

Records of soldiers who remained in Army service after 1922 are as I posted earlier still with the Army. These records can be obtained but it costs £30 and can take up to a year and the Army has a strict order of kinship as to who can apply.

Does the family have any medals that these 2 men won or other evidence of the war service?

[Hilary]

Just another thought. You could try the local paper for the time. This is probably on film in a library in Pembrokeshire.

[daggers]

Here is something to consider.
There is a medal index card on Ancestry for Clement Morris, Royal Field Artillery, no. 57358, who earned the usual 'trio' of medals. He qualified for the 1914 Star, entering France on 16 Aug 1914. His ranks are shown as Acting Bombardier and Sergeant. The card is noted 'disch 24/11/17', but does not show the reason, which might be wounds, but might not, as no reference to a wounded badge is given.
As this Clement arrived in France so early in the war it is 99% sure that he was a regular soldier.
What do you think?
D

[Minera]

Thank you, I will check again on Ancestry and also try the papers I do remember that the clipping described a local man so obviosly it will have been a local paper. There were medals but I have no way of finding them.
Didn't know about the loss of records, thought it was just my own ignorance which was preventing my finding anything. Thank you for all the help xx

[Minera]

I think you may well have found my man, that really does sound very promising, I have no idea how or where you found that but there were not as many Clement Morrises as other names. So that does sound right. Any suggestions on how to take this further? I really am stupid when it comes to military stuff. Thinking about it there wasn't much opportunity for them so he may well have enlisted earlier. I know now that he married in Chesterton Cambridgeshire in 1922, that marriage ended and his wife remarried eventually. The "aunt Joan " who I met with Clem may not have been married to him, or at least I have no record of it, but something tells me they met as she was nursing him.
Don't know why that just seems to be in my mind, they had no children and Clem died before I could visit again. They lived in Croyden then and his death reg shows Enfield.

Military would explain his first marriage in Cambridgeshire, because they are highly unlikely to have met in Pembrokeshire between the wars. He could have joined up at the latter end of the 1st WW though.
Thank you so much for this it's been such a big help.

[Hilary]

His marriage certificate would indicate if he was still a serving soldier at that time.

[Minera]

Daggers Thank you so much for all of your help with this, I have spent weeks ploughing through as many records as I could find, I really do think given that it's my older cousin who is confused, probably as she has a lifetimes memories of the whole family whereas mine was more a snapshot in time, so though my memory fails on many things I remember this glimpse with more clarity. My cousin does not remember meeting me but I remember clearly meeting her.
Thank you very very much

[daggers]

There seem to be enough similarities between your handed-down legends and the details I found for Clement to make a match, but I am not sure what we can do about your Robert. Search of newspapers published where they lived might give something about enlistment or return after discharge, but that would mean a lot of reading microfilms, not easy!
Glad to be able to help.
D

[Minera]

THANK YOU xx