Joshua (3) McDonald abt 1869/ Sarah Lucy Widders.

[GeirGG]

Hi,

I am trying to help my mother in law, to find out about her British relatives. Her Grandmother was from Liverpool, and was the daughter of the person I refer to as Joshua#3. If anybody can help me, that would be great!

What I have sort of found out so far (it might not be right, but I think it is) is as follows:

I find them in the 1871 census.

1871:
RG10 - Piece: 3770 - Folio: 24 - Page: 39
Address: 3 house, 5 Court, Hodson Street, Liverpool
MCDONALD, Joshua - Head - 22 - Scavenger - Manchester, Lancashire.
MCDONALD, Sarah - Wife - 21 - Ireland
MCDONALD, Joshua - Son - 2 - Lancashire


Joshua#2 (his father) dies in 1880 (I have ordered this from GRO, so I am not yet sure, but there can't be yet another Joshua, I presume).

In the 1881 census I can't find Sarah and my Joshua (#3).

The problem is, that I haven't found Joshua McDonald#3 born in Liverpool (I have ordered a McDonald unknown 1869 from GRO, so fingers crossed) or Joshua#2 and his wife married (but I find them in the 1871 census).

And then he dissapears with his wives best friend and is never heard of again (this my mother in law knows). But where is Joshua in 1881, and what happens to him after 1901?

Thanks
Geir

[MaryA]

We are unable to keep returning to a previous post for information. Please post your information on this branch of the family in full, birthplaces and dates etc. are very important to have to hand.

[Bertieone]

Marriage, Dec Qtr, 1890, Liverpool.
Joshua McDonald
Sarah Lucy Widders.
Liverpool 8b 288

[GeirGG]

To Bertieone:

Thanks, but I already know this (this is how I found out that his father was Joshua and not George). I need his birth, his death (and where he was after he left his family), where he was in the 1881 census and his parents marriage.

Thanks again
Geir

[Bertieone]

To Bertieone:

Thanks, but I already know this (this is how I found out that his father was Joshua and not George). I need his birth, his death (and where he was after he left his family), where he was in the 1881 census and his parents marriage.

Thanks again
Geir

Geir,
I know you know this and many other things that may be posted, its done for other members so they can help and may not have certain information before them, not everyone has access to censuses for example.

[GeirGG]

Ok, I hope that it is correct now:-)

[MaryA]

If you have the information from the marriage Bertie has given, please post the information, which is very important as to location, ages, occupations, fathers and witnesses.

[GeirGG]

Marriage between Joshua McDonald 21 Occ. Blacksmith, and Sarah Lucy Widders 19:

Year: 1890 at St. Peter's Chapel rites and ceremonies of the Catholic church
Fourteenth October 1890
Residence (both) 91 Upper Fredrick Street
Father of Joshua is Joshua McDonald (Deceased) Occ. Basketmaker
Father of Sarah is John Widders (Deaceased) Occ. Boatman

in the presence of: John Ford and Katie Chandler

[Bertieone]

The 91 census, Joshua and Sarah nee Widders are alone,
1901 census, Albert Terrace
Joshua, head, 30, Blacksmith
Sarah wife, 30,
John, son, 9
Sarah, dau, 10,
Lizzie, dau, 4
All born Lancashire,
Rg 13 Piece 3388, Folio 79 Page 43

[Bertieone]

Marriage of Daughter Sarah bn abt 1891
4th March 1912, St Nicholas, Liverpool.
Gustav Adolph Olsen, 25 Interpreter, Bachelor
Sarah Agnes McDonald, 21, spinster,
Fathers, Joshua McDonald, Blacksmith, Anton Hegbert Olsen, Shoemaker.
Witnesses, John Martin, Lillian Martin
Addresses, Gt Georges Sq

That address popped up before, Sarah 1881 census, Joshua's mother?

[GeirGG]

Hi Bert,

What you have found is correct! That is the marriage of Joshuas daughter.

And what you say about the adress is kind of exciting. This could really be a connection to that Sarah that you mentioned earlier (in the thread about Joshua#2)

Thanks a lot
Geir

[GeirGG]

Is there anyone who has any theories about why we can't find the birth of Joshua? Also what happens to him after 1901?

Thanks a lot
Geir

[MaryA]

I have ordered a McDonald unknown 1869 from GRO, so fingers crossed

Any news on this?

And then he dissapears with his wives best friend and is never heard of again

I don't think you have given any details or dates of this.

If there is gossip in the family about this event then what was said? was there anything mentioned about them leaving the country perhaps?
There are hundreds of "J McDonald" passengers on the lists leaving the UK.

[GeirGG]

No, I haven't recived it yet.

No gossip, I'm afraid. He was a blacksmith by trade, can that help in any way?

thanks
Geir

[dickiesam]

Is there anyone who has any theories about why we can't find the birth of Joshua? Also what happens to him after 1901?

Thanks a lot
Geir

A possibility...
His birth may not have been registered. Before the early 1870s is was the responsibility of the District Registrar to 'locate' and record BMD events. He was paid by 'the each' and got his information from priests, doctors, midwives and hospitals, etc. I have read that up to 15% of births were 'missed' and not registered. A birth could be 'at home' without a midwife attending, just grandmother for instance, and no-one in officialdom would know about it. Later the system was changed and it became mandatory for the birth to be registered by the mother, or her 'agent' within 6 weeks. Didn't always happen that way. Some births would be registered quite late.

With regard to his disappearance, it would be worth trawling arrivals in the US where his full name and occupation could have been given.

[GeirGG]

Maybe that is the case. I have checked Ellis Island, but couldn't find him there.

Thanks
Geir

[dickiesam]

Maybe that is the case. I have checked Ellis Island, but couldn't find him there.

Thanks
Geir

Have you broadened the arrivals search to include ports outside NY. Not all immigrants went through Ellis Island. And there's Canada to be considered.

[GeirGG]

I haven't tried that before. That might be something to try:-)

Thanks
Geir

[GeirGG]

I got the unknown McDonald from 1869 today. It was not my Joshua, so I am none the wiser.