The Murray Family of Liverpool

[winstonevertongroovy]

Hi, I've recently started on my family tree and have so far got over 150 names, mainly on my Mothers side, and I'm after information on the following if anyone can help :-

Murrays - Peter & Mary Jane,(nee Howarth), of the Roscommon Street area, (Prince Edwin St./Cornwall St.), around about 1890's - 1960's, and Creswell Mount, Everton a bit later on. They had the following children - Leslie,(my Father), William, Tommy, Peter, Mary, George, Stanley, Annie & Maggie,(most of whom ended up in Kirkby).

Thompsons - Edward Wilson & William R of West Derby 1860's - 1960's

Forshaws - Matthew (Liverpool), Thomas (Haydock), John (Newton) & John (Winwick) 1760's - 1960's

I'm also looking for Coopers/Webbs/Broadmeadows etc. from the Staffordshire/Shropshire/Wiltshire & Worcestershire areas.

I've just filled out the form to join the Society but noticed that I'll have to renew again on January 1st so I may as well wait until then, also just ordered the Family Tree Maker 2012 Platinum Edition so will be on Ancestry.co.uk soon as well but if anyone has any info in the meantime it will be much appreciated.

Thanks
Lee

[Bertieone]

Hi Lee and welcome,
If you join the society now you will not have to renew until Jan 1st 2014.


Marriage at the Parish of St Ambrose, Liverpool, 15 May 1910.
Peter Murray, 22, Bachelor, Fireman, 48 Prince Edwin Lane.
Mary Jane Howarth, 20, Spinster, 19 Clifton St
Fathers, Peter Murray, Labourer. Thomas Howarth, Carter.
Witnesses, Thomas Howarth, Amelia Johnson.

[Bertieone]

Registerd Murray births, Mothers maiden name Howarth. Free BMD.

Mary I, June 1915, West Derby, 8b 689
Margaret, March 1916, West Derby, 8b 872
Peter, March 1919, West Derby, 8b 617
Thomas R, March, 1921, West Derby, 8b 850


Leslie G, June 1911, Liverpool, 8b 103,( prior to Maiden name being displayed) Free BMD.

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum - and the Society too! Bertieone is right, your membership, if subscribed now, will include all of next year also.

Good thinking to get the software with the free subs to Ancestry, especially with family in Liverpool there are many Parish Registers available on there, we have an advantage over some other places. You will also be welcome to come to any of our Group meetings, http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/groups.html where they have some informative speakers or sometimes Members evenings where the discussion centres on problems or successes we have found in our research.

We will help as much as we can, please can you let us know a little more specifically what information you are looking for and perhaps which is the nearest census that you have the family on.

[winstonevertongroovy]

Registerd Murray births, Mothers maiden name Howarth. Free BMD.

Mary I, June 1915, West Derby, 8b 689
Margaret, March 1916, West Derby, 8b 872
Peter, March 1919, West Derby, 8b 617
Thomas R, March, 1921, West Derby, 8b 850


Leslie G, June 1911, Liverpool, 8b 103,( prior to Maiden name being displayed) Free BMD.

Hi Bert thanks for the info, my Auntie Mary was apparently born 05/07/1923 according to relatives, Margaret, Peter & Tommy I'm not sure about so could well be right, my Father Leslie's d.o.b. is definitely 14/06/1929 and he didn't have a middle name so I don't know who the one you've found is. What does the West Derby 8b etc. mean?

Thanks MaryA I will sort that out now.

Lee

[winstonevertongroovy]

Hmm I now seem to be having a problem with the membership joining page, the icons/pics aren't displaying so I can't see what I'm clicking on, I will keep trying and see what happens.

[simone]

Hi Lee

This is the family I mentioned on FB that I though may be your family in 1901 at 5 House 11 Court Robart/ Robert? St
RG13; Piece: 3473; Folio: 115 all born Liverpool
Thomas Howarth 38 Carter
Margaret Howarth 35
William Howarth 14
Ellen Howarth 12
Mary Howarth 10
Thomas Howarth 8
Richard Howarth 6
Margaret Howarth 4
Eliza Howarth 1


However another member on Ancestry has corrected the name to Howorth.. Her connection is through William Howarth. You will be able to contact her should you wish to when you are up and running on Ancestry.


must be right family because
RG14; Piece: 22526
10 Years later - at 19 Clifton Street
Thomas Howorth 49 Carter
Margaret Howorth 45
Ellen Howorth 23 domestic servant
Thomas Howorth 18 carter
Richard Howorth 16 carter
Margaret Howorth 14
Eliza Howorth 11
Lily Howorth 9
Mrs Murray 39 boarder b Liverpool, interesting

Thomas and Margaret married 26 years, 9 children, 8 living.

Simone x

[Bertieone]

Hi Lee,

This will be Leslie,

Murray Leslie, Howarth, June qtr, 1929, West Derby 8b 989,


info at link

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

[MaryA]

What does the West Derby 8b etc. mean?

When somebody gives you the details of a birth, marriage or death entry from the indexes so that you can order a certificate from the General Register Office - http://www.gro.gov.uk - you need the year, quarter and reference. Hopefully our forum members will always give you these so that makes it easier for you. Obviously, if the marriage/baptism or burial can be found in the Parish Registers, it often means that you can find the same information without having to spend out on the cost of a certificate.

You may find this post useful to read through. http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... =25&t=6937

[winstonevertongroovy]

Guys you lot are brilliant, Simone great info once again and I didn't realise my Nin,(as we called her), had any brothers or sisters, I can see that she named some of her children after them as well, strange about a Mrs Murray lodging with them
Thanks again Bert, I've just tried that free site out myself by searching for my dad who you found but it didn't come up with anything, I'm obviously doing something wrong.
Thanks Mary, I look forward to the day when I can help somebody on here myself.

[MaryA]

strange about a Mrs Murray lodging with them

Someone you would do well to investigate when your subs to Ancestry comes through.

I've just tried that free site out myself by searching for my dad who you found but it didn't come up with anything, I'm obviously doing something wrong.

Make sure you put the names the right way around - sometimes mistakenly people put the first name first rather than the surname, enter the year but leave the mother's maiden name blank as the entry reads Howard rather than Howarth.

[dickiesam]

[What does the West Derby 8b etc. mean? Lee

West Derby is the District Registry Office where the 'event' was registered. There were originally two in Liverpool, the West Derby office and the Liverpool office. Then in the 1870s Toxteth was introduced.

The 8b [and XX or 20 on early entries] indicates the Volume of the Register the entry was made in. The number after the Volume indicates the page number of the entry. As MaryA says, when you order BMD certs from the GRO [General Register Office] you should use these references if you have them.

[winstonevertongroovy]

Simone, I wonder if that could be Robsart Street that you found?, I say this because I've just been looking through some old internment records of Anfield Cemetery where I know a fair few of my relatives are buried & I came across a Margaret Murray who died or was buried on 3rd July 1872 and who lived at 68 Robsart Street which was a few streets away from Prince Edwin Lane where my Grandad lived, (& Cornwall Street where he lived later on), Robsart St. had 2 courts apparently, Cyprus Place & Tarleton Terrace. Now this person may or may not be one of my relations but I shall do a bit more digging & see what I can find out about her.
Lee

[MaryA]

Simone, I wonder if that could be Robsart Street that you found?

Yes, looking at the page it would seem to be a Court between 65 and 67 Robsart Street.

[Charlottejayne13]

Hi Lee

Saw you post on Facebook and hope I can help.

Not too sure whether this will is of use, but I have Howarths on father's tree. My father's family from the mid 1920's onwards and were located in the Netherfield Road North area - Mitylene Street, Candia Street etc. My dad regularly mentions Roscommon Street when we discuss his childhood and family.

I will help as much as I can with the Howarths, although I have no Murray's in my tree - as yet.

Regards

Karen

[winstonevertongroovy]

That's brilliant Karen, while I'm mainly interested in the Murray side because I'm trying to trace my Scottish roots I would certainly like to know about the Howarths as well. The Murrays lived in the Netherfield Road area for a long time & certainly during the 1930's, do you think your Howarths are the ones that lived in Robsart Street?, I take it I will only be able to hook up with your tree once I have paid subs to ancestry, hopefully my Family Tree Maker will arrive today & I can have a look. (Posted this in reply to you on Facebook as well)
Thanks
Lee

[winstonevertongroovy]

Update - I now have a subscription to Ancestry.com and may have found some information. I put in a search for my Grandad, Peter Murray, using his d.o.b., marriage date, place of residence etc. & it came up with a family on the 1901 census that must be his, same info, living in the same area & with the same name Father, (this MUST be right mustn't it?). If correct it seems that my Grandad's family on his dad's side NEVER came from Scotland after all but Ireland which is a big shock tbh,(although by no means a bad one), his mum however was Scottish by the looks of it so that means I can carry on wearing the clan tartan hopefully. So what's the next step do you reckon guys, order a copy of my Grandad's birth certificate?, or is there something else I can do in the meantime. (I've got another thread going asking how I'm supposed to go about researching my family tree and I've had some great replies and would just like to say thanks here as well).
I think I may have many many hours of research in front of me as I think I'm getting addicted to this haha.
Lee

[Blue70]

If we have the right family for some reason the father Peter Murray is recorded as Patrick Murray on the 1891 Census but is again Peter Murray on the 1881 Census. Peter and Grace moved to Liverpool from Scotland going by where the children were born. Peter and Grace probably married in Scotland. Here is the 1881 Census transcript from Family Search:-

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQ69-97N


Blue

[Bertieone]

The actual census form for 1881,

72 Rose Vale, Liverpool.

Anthony Carruthers, Head, 48, Electrician, Annan Dumfries, Scotland.
Catherine, wife, 44, Tailoress,
Peter Murray, brother, 49, Telegraph worker, Leitrim, Ireland.
Grace, sister, 46, Annan, Dumfries, Scotland.
George, son, 10, Glasgow, Scotland.
Thomas, son, 6 = =
Anthony, son, 4months, Liverpool
Elizabeth Bell, servant, Glasgow
Rg11, Piece3658, Folio90, Page20


Relationship to the head.
It looks like Peter should have been recorded as brother in law, if Grace is the sister of Anthony then her maiden name should be Carruthers?

[Bertieone]

Lee,

Blue has already stated the 1891census, Peter is down as Patrick, it is the same family.

1891,
Rg 12, Piece2944, Folio101, Page16


On Ancestry

In the 1891 search box,

Enter, Patrick Murray in name box
In keyword box enter number, RG12, 2944, 101, 16.
the census you want will be top of the list.