The Murray Family of Liverpool

[dickiesam]

I'll order my dad's birth certificate 1st I think then my Grandad's when I'm sure of his details, Liverpool GRO is the place isn't it.

Possibly quicker to go online at http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certi ... efault.asp
You will need to register your details and have a password for the site but that is for future access so they have your name and address on file for future orders. When possible have the GRO Index references ready to hand... Event year, the District where event was registered, the quarter, Volume and Page numbers. I'll use one of Bert's inputs as an example...

Peter Howarth - March qtr 1919 - District West Derby - Volume 8b - Page 617.

[Hilary]

When did your grandfather and grandfather die? That might help with ages.

If Mary Jane married in 1910 she cannot have been born in 1898!

[MaryA]

Could be your grandfather married twice.

Not so sure. All West Derby but in date order, there appears to be more and overlapping.

Jun 1913 Wilfred G Howarth W.Derby 8b 631 *
Jun 1915 Mary I Howarth W. Derby 8b 689 *
Mar 1916 Margaret Howarth W.Derby 8b 872 *
Sep 1916 Elsie F Howard W. Derby 8b 644
Mar 1917 Vincent Howarth W. Derby 8b 637 *
Mar 1918 Eileen Howard W.Derby 8b 793
Mar 1919 Peter Howarth W. Derby 8b 617 *
Sep 1920 Dora M Howard W. Derby 8b 1043
Mar 1921 Thomas R Howarth W.Derby 8b 850 *
Mar 1922 Edith M Howard W.Derby 8b 1046
Sep 1922 Annie Howard W.Derby 8b 845
Sep 1924 Agnes J Howard W.Derby 8b 1112
Dec 1924 William J Howard W.Derby 8b 949
Jun 1926 Ronald P Howard W.Derby 8b 1108
Jun 1927 Stanley Howard W.Derby 8b 947
Jun 1929 Leslie Howard W.Derby 8b 989
Sep 1931 George Howard W.Derby 8b 964
* Howarths

Although it's possible to have the two births in 1916 I think it's unlikely and also the couple in 1922 and 1924 - I wonder if these indicate yet another Murray/Howard marriage.

Sep 1915 Howard Rachel Murray William I W.Derby 8b 1209 - fits just before the birth of Elsie F in 1916
Dec 1917 Murray Bernard Howard Margaret A W.Derby 8b 749

[Hilary]

Seaman Peter Murray number 792860 has 3 entries on the free index of Seamen's records on Find My Past. 2 give a birthdate in 1889 and 1 gives a birth date in 1883.

I think you need to look at all of these as they appear to all be the same man!

There's a mercantile marine medal card for Peter Murray nborn in 1889 on the National Archives website. You have to pay to download it.

[Blue70]

There's a Peter Murray who survived the sinking of the Empress of Ireland in 1914. There's a lot of information about this disaster on the Internet it was world news at the time it was one of three major sinkings around that time where Liverpool people lossed their lives. The other two being Titanic and Lusitania.

Here is a link to an image listing P. Murray as a Trimmer who survived the sinking of Empress of Ireland:-

http://www.sea-viewdiving.com/shipwreck ... page23.htm


Blue

[Hilary]

I reckon we're looking for Peter Murray born June 1889 who at some point decided he was a bot older than he was!

The only trouble is I can't find one!!

[dickiesam]

Post deleted. Old info.

[Blue70]

That's a curious change of dates.


Blue

[Bertieone]

Could be your grandfather married twice.

Not so sure. All West Derby but in date order, there appears to be more and overlapping.

Jun 1913 Wilfred G Howarth W.Derby 8b 631 *
Jun 1915 Mary I Howarth W. Derby 8b 689 *
Mar 1916 Margaret Howarth W.Derby 8b 872 *
Sep 1916 Elsie F Howard W. Derby 8b 644
Mar 1917 Vincent Howarth W. Derby 8b 637 *
Mar 1918 Eileen Howard W.Derby 8b 793
Mar 1919 Peter Howarth W. Derby 8b 617 *
Sep 1920 Dora M Howard W. Derby 8b 1043
Mar 1921 Thomas R Howarth W.Derby 8b 850 *
Mar 1922 Edith M Howard W.Derby 8b 1046
Sep 1922 Annie Howard W.Derby 8b 845
Sep 1924 Agnes J Howard W.Derby 8b 1112
Dec 1924 William J Howard W.Derby 8b 949
Jun 1926 Ronald P Howard W.Derby 8b 1108
Jun 1927 Stanley Howard W.Derby 8b 947
Jun 1929 Leslie Howard W.Derby 8b 989
Sep 1931 George Howard W.Derby 8b 964
* Howarths

Although it's possible to have the two births in 1916 I think it's unlikely and also the couple in 1922 and 1924 - I wonder if these indicate yet another Murray/Howard marriage.

Sep 1915 Howard Rachel Murray William I W.Derby 8b 1209 - fits just before the birth of Elsie F in 1916
Dec 1917 Murray Bernard Howard Margaret A W.Derby 8b 749

The 9 children Lee put up I would have expected the 5 that carry the Howard name to be duplicated and carry the Howarth name, if a mistake has been made its been carried over 5 children and about 9 years, if those 5 children belong to another family it would appear that 5 Howarth children have not been registered.
On saying that I can't find a Murray/ Howard marriage, be interesting to find out whats on Lee's father's birth cert.

[winstonevertongroovy]

Ok guys take it easy...........I'm just gonna take some medication & lie down now haha.

Ordered dad's birth cert. from Liverpool Councils website, gave dates of birth & death, where registered,(West Derby), fathers & mothers name including Howarth but explained that it may be Howard, I put the quarter as 2nd as he was born in June but didn't really understand if that was what the form was asking or not so hopefully I'll get the right one back
My Grandfather is supposed to have died September 1969, not sure about my Nin but think it was in the 1970's, I've just got my cousins phone number so will give her a ring in a bit & hopefully clear some stuff up. I agree that Nin could not have been born in 1898 if married 1910 so maybe the year of 1891 I've been given is nearer the mark.
MaryA - I definitely had uncles & aunties called Mary/Maggie(Margaret?)/Annie/George/Stanley/William/Tommy and there was a Peter who I believe died way before I was born in 1964, they were all Murray's though not Howarths/Howards.
As I said I remember a story of my Grandad Peter being on the Empress of Ireland but I also seem to remember he was on the Lusitania but again maybe my brain is a bit fried now.
Let me speak to my cousins & give them the info I have, see what comes of it.
I really appreciate all this guys, thank you.
Lee

[winstonevertongroovy]

Forgot to say I'm now in possession of my Grandad's war medals that I thought were long gone, some have the odd inscription on the back but nothing that seems to mean much to me, one has a long number on so I'll post it up in a bit see if anyone can make sense of it.

[Hilary]

Please everyone check the T & Cs on FMP.

[MaryA]

Although it's possible to have the two births in 1916 I think it's unlikely and also the couple in 1922 and 1924 - I wonder if these indicate yet another Murray/Howard marriage.

Sep 1915 Howard Rachel Murray William I W.Derby 8b 1209 - fits just before the birth of Elsie F in 1916
Dec 1917 Murray Bernard Howard Margaret A W.Derby 8b 749

On saying that I can't find a Murray/ Howard marriage, be interesting to find out whats on Lee's father's birth cert.

I did put forward the two Murray/Howard marriages for consideration, I thought the dates would fit well, especially the first.

[winstonevertongroovy]

Please everyone check the T & Cs on FMP.

[MaryA]

MaryA - I definitely had uncles & aunties called Mary/Maggie(Margaret?)/Annie/George/Stanley/William/Tommy and there was a Peter who I believe died way before I was born in 1964, they were all Murray's though not Howarths/Howards.

The list of names I gave were all Murrays. The Howarth/Howard is the mother's maiden name given in each case in the indexes.

[MaryA]

Findmypast Terms and Conditions I believe continue to exclude offers or requests for look ups etc. Please take care guys.

[Bertieone]

Although it's possible to have the two births in 1916 I think it's unlikely and also the couple in 1922 and 1924 - I wonder if these indicate yet another Murray/Howard marriage.

Sep 1915 Howard Rachel Murray William I W.Derby 8b 1209 - fits just before the birth of Elsie F in 1916
Dec 1917 Murray Bernard Howard Margaret A W.Derby 8b 749

On saying that I can't find a Murray/ Howard marriage, be interesting to find out whats on Lee's father's birth cert.

I did put forward the two Murray/Howard marriages for consideration, I thought the dates would fit well, especially the first.

Silly me Mary, I meant Peter Murray marriage.

[winstonevertongroovy]

MaryA - I definitely had uncles & aunties called Mary/Maggie(Margaret?)/Annie/George/Stanley/William/Tommy and there was a Peter who I believe died way before I was born in 1964, they were all Murray's though not Howarths/Howards.

The list of names I gave were all Murrays. The Howarth/Howard is the mother's maiden name given in each case in the indexes.

Ah I thought that was probably the case, I'm learning........................slowly.

[MaryA]

Silly me Mary, I meant Peter Murray marriage.

Do you mean the one you found on Page 1 of this post? Your first message and the first reply to Lee's original query
http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... 388#p98800

[Bertieone]

Silly me Mary, I meant Peter Murray marriage.

Do you mean the one you found on Page 1 of this post? Your first message and the first reply to Lee's original query
http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... 388#p98800

I think I found half of that one, I was trying to find a Peter Murray/ Howard, to no avail. on BMD