Finnan Family

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello to all

The Finnan's have previously been briefly mentioned in the McDonough/Lacey topic but I need to further expand the Finnan Family tree since making contact with one of my wife's cousins in America.

The information that I have so far working backwards is my wife's father William Gerard was born 1909 being the youngest child of John Finnan born 1864 and Jane Finnan nee Lacey born 1870. I have details of their GRO birth, marriage and death certificates. John apparently had a twin sister Mary Finnan with the same GRO birth certificate number 8b 20 but I cannot find her death certificate. I understand that Janes parents were John Lacey and Margaret Lacey nee Kinsella both born in Ireland but have no details of same.

I understand that John Finnan's parents were Patrick Finnan and Ellen Finnan nee Dunlevy but have been unable to locate details of their birth, marriage and deaths. They may have been born in Ireland also.

William Gerard's siblings were,
Ellen May born 1906 I have two GRO numbers 8b 37 and 8b 9 not sure which is the one? but not death certificate number, she did not marry.
John Leo born 1903 (have GRO certificate number) who emigrated to America and died there.
Florence born 1900 have birth certificate details but cannot find death certificate number, she did not marry.
Eleanor born 1898, died 1898 have both birth and death certificate details.
Margaret born 1897 have birth certificate details, emigrated to Kentucky USA.

Can anyone please locate the missing GRO numbers via Ancestry?

Best Regards
Allan

[Bertieone]

Florence Finnan

Birth 2 July 1900

Death, Oct, Qtr, 1985, Liverpool, 36 1043.

[Bertieone]

Ellen May Finnan

Birth 31 May 1906

Death, Oct Qtr 1985, Sefton South, Merseyside, 37 232.

[dickiesam]

FINNEN, Patrick married DONLEVY, Ellen
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1857; Sep qtr
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 532

1871:
RG10 - Piece: 3761 - Folio: 129 - Page: 64
Address: 283 Vauxhall Road, Liverpool.
FINNAN, Patrick - Head - 46 - Dock labourer - Ireland
FINNAN, Ellen - Wife - 43 - Scotland
FINNAN, Patrick - Son - 12 - Liverpool.
FINNAN, William - Son - 10 - Liverpool
FINNAN, John - Son - 6 - Liverpool
FINNAN, Mary - Dtr - 4 - Liverpool
FINNAN, Catharine - Dtr - 1 - Liverpool.

Edit to correct typo. 1861 should have read 1871!

[dickiesam]

Births: John and Mary Finnan
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1865; Mar qtr
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 20.

Another daughter named Mary was born in 1867. It was a common naming practice to give a later child the same name as a deceased child of the same family.
Birth: FINAN, Mary
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1867; Jun qtr
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 29

This indicates that the 'first' Mary had died before the end of June 1867.
Death: FINAN, Mary Ann
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1867; Jun qtr
Age at death: 2
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 68

[dickiesam]

Spelling variations were quite common.

1881:
RG11 - Piece: 3599 - Folio: 133 - Page: 86
Address: 14 Telary St, Liverpool.
FINNEN, Patrick - Head - 72 - Chemical labourer - Ireland
FINNEN, Ellen - Wife - 40 - Housekeeper - Scotland
plus 7 children. There is an obvious error in the ages of Patrick and Ellen on the census summary sheet. A possible mistake by the enumerator. The ages of the children match the 1871.

Death: FINNEN, Patrick
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1883; Jun qtr
Age at death: 60
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 18

Ages at death were often a best guess by the informant.

[MaryA]

FINNEN, Patrick married DONLEVY, Ellen
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1857; Sep qtr
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 532

Marriages
13 September 1857 St Anthony's
......................Parents................Witnesses
Patrick Finnin - Pat & Catherine - Laurence Finnin
Ellen Donlevy - Jno & Catherine - Ellin Finnegan

Also a possible sibling of Ellen in case it's useful
2nd December, 1855 St Anthony's
Margret Donlevy - John & Catherine - Mary Ann Donlevy
Thomas Gaunt - Wm & May - John White

[MaryA]

Death: FINNEN, Patrick
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1883; Jun qtr
Age at death: 60
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 18

Burial 2nd May 1883
Patrick Finnen - 14 Telary Street - Age 60 - Grave No. N.8

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Bert

Many thanks for the GRO reference numbers for Florence and Ellen May Finnan. My wife remembers them passing away within a very short period of each other, both never married and lived together in Roxburgh Street until their passing.

Hello dickiesam

The 1861 census ties in with 283 Vauxhall Road but the John aged 6 and the Mary aged 4 does not tie in with the twins John and Mary born 28/12/1864 at 283 Vauxhall Road? Who was resident at where for both 1871 and 1881 census? Who are the seven children in the 1881 census?

Are the Mary Ann Finan and the Mary Finan in 1867 June Qtr 8b 29 and 8b 68 respectively of the same family?

Going back to my original post we know that both John Leo and Margaret emigrated to America when they were each 15 for John (as a boy waiter/captains boy aboard ships for Sydney and New South Wales) and an unknown age/unknown single or married for Margaret. John after later travelling to New York ports, Chile, Ireland, Liverpool, Germany and the Bahamas eventually settled in America and married Thea Johanna Stenzel in November 1942. It is said that he was married prior to 1942 but the marriage was annulled after a few months, no children evident and not sure if the marriage was in England or America.

Lots of valued information from you both, many thanks.

Best Regards
Allan

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Mary

Are you saying that Ellen Donlevy had a child prior to marrying Patrick Finnan in 1857?

Best Regards
Allan

[dickiesam]

Hello dickiesam
The 1861 census ties in with 283 Vauxhall Road but the John aged 6 and the Mary aged 4 does not tie in with the twins John and Mary born 28/12/1864 at 283 Vauxhall Road? Who was resident at where for both 1871 and 1881 census? Who are the seven children in the 1881 census?

Are the Mary Ann Finan and the Mary Finan in 1867 June Qtr 8b 29 and 8b 68 respectively of the same family?

I believe the birth cert for the Mary bn in 1867 will show she is a child of Patrick and Ellen, because she is in the family in 1871. I had made a typo with the wrong census year, 1861 instead of 1871, although the census reference was correct.

Similarly, the death cert for the Mary Finan who died aged 2 years in 1867 will confirm who's child she was.

The 1881 census is free to access which is why I didn't name the entire family. Searches for Patrick and Ellen in the 1881 failed because of the incorrect recorded ages. A search for their daughter Catherine, being the youngest, finally found them at the following census reference:

RG11 - Piece: 3599 - Folio: 133 - Page: 86
Address: 14 Telary St, Liverpool.
FINNEN, Patrick Head 72 1809 Chemical Laborer Ireland
FINNEN, Ellen Wife 40 1841 Housekeeper Scotland
FINNEN, Patrick Son Single 22 1859 Laborer Tobacco Factory Liverpool
FINNEN, William Son Single 20 1861 Chemical Stoker Liverpool
FINNEN, John Son 16 1865 Chemical Stoker Liverpool
FINNEN, Mary Daughter 14 1867 Unemployed Liverpool
FINNEN, Catherine Daughter 11 1870 Scholar Liverpool
FINNEN, Ellen Daughter 8 1873 Scholar Liverpool
FINNEN, James Son 5 1876 Scholar Liverpool
LYNCH, Margaret Niece Single 18 1863 Tobacco Factory Liverpool

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello dickiesam

Many thanks for the added information, lots to go on and cross check. Will check out the certificates and keep you all informed of any further progress.

Any further information that might been found via yourselves will add to the puzzle.

Best Regards
Allan

[simone]

From Anc*


Gulielmus Finnan
Birth Date: 11 Feb 1861
Baptism Date: 12 Feb 1861
Parish: Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette
Father's Name: Patricii Finnan
Mother's Name Ellena Dunlavey



Margarita Finnan
Birth Date: 23 Nov 1879
Baptism Date: 30 Nov 1879
Parish: St Sylvester (Sylvestri)
Father's Name: Patricic Finnan
Mother's Name: Helenae Dunleavey



Margarita Laciae Finnan
Birth Date: 19 Aug 1896
Baptism Date: 23 Aug 1896
Parish: St Sylvester (Sylvestri)
Father's Name: Joannis Finnan
Mother's Name: Joannae Lacey


Joannes Leo Finnan
Birth Date: 5 Aug 1903
Baptism Date: 8 Aug 1903
Parish: St Sylvester (Sylvestri)
Father's Name: Joannis Finnan
Mother's Name: Joanna Lacey


Helena Maria Finnan
Birth Date: 31 May 1906
Baptism Date: 5 Jun 1906
Parish: St Sylvester (Sylvestri)
Father's Name: Joannis Finnan
Mother's Name: Joannae Lacey

[MaryA]

Are you saying that Ellen Donlevy had a child prior to marrying Patrick Finnan in 1857?

No, I think you are mistaking a marriage entry for a baptism, it is a little sparse of information but then sometimes with RC churches it's hit and miss whether there is as much or not.

[dickiesam]

Hello Mary

Are you saying that Ellen Donlevy had a child prior to marrying Patrick Finnan in 1857?

Best Regards
Allan

Hi Allan,
The word 'sibling' indicates a blood-related brother or sister. So in this instance it is possible that Mary Ann Donlevy and Margret/Margaret Dunlevy were Ellen's sisters.

The marriage details that MaryA posted also gives you Patrick and Ellen's parents as well as a possible sibling for Patrick.

[simone]

Another daughter named Mary was born in 1867. It was a common naming practice to give a later child the same name as a deceased child of the same family.
Birth: FINAN, Mary
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1867; Jun qtr
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 29

This indicates that the 'first' Mary had died before the end of June 1867.
Death: FINAN, Mary Ann
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1867; Jun qtr
Age at death: 2
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 68

Burial at Ford Cemetery

Mary Ann Finan
Birth Year: abt 1865
Age: 2
23 North Street
Death Year: abt 1867
Burial Date: 10 Apr 1867
Parish: Ford Cemetery

[simone]

Marriage for Patrick and Ellen


Pat Fennen
Marriage Date: 13 Sep 1857
Parish: St Anthony
Spouse's Name: Helenam Danlovey
Father's Name: Pat Fennen
Mother's Name:Cath Fennen
Spouse Father's Name: Joannes Danlovey
Spouse Mother's Name: Cath Danlovey
witnesses Laurnet? Fennen and Helena Hennyon?

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello simone

Many thanks for your information, the list of names from Anc* do not ring any bells especially with all the different spellings. Are they from another Finnan link? One thing I have noticed is the mothers name Lacey, which appears when John Finnan married Jane Lacey 10/11/1895 GRO reference 8b 340. Seems a coincidence that their are two John Finnan that married two Jane Lacey does it not?

Hello MaryA

I have Patrick and Ellen married 1857 8b 532 Sept first qtr but the marriage is shown as 13th September? Is the copy certificate that simone has shown that for 8b 532? If so why the vastly different spellings?

Am I getting totally confused with myself and the relevant details?

Best Regards
Allan

[simone]

Hi Allan

here is John's marriage


Joannem Finnan
Marriage Date: 10 Nov 1895
Parish: St Sylvester (Sylvestri)
Spouse's Name: Joannam Lacey
Father's Name: Patritii Finnan
Spouse Father's Name:Joannis Lacey




re the spellings on Patricks marriage details, often names were misconstrued over time, especially as people had accents such as they probably did being Irish.. often things were written down phonetically rather than as we would expect them to be correctly spelled. Also you will find that Catholic records were recorded in Latin as the ones I have listed are.. so names may be different to those you expect to see, e.g Joannis is latin for John
Notice Jane's name is written as Joannam on the marriage as it is also on the baptisma for the children I listed earlier

[simone]

From Anc*


Gulielmus Finnan
Birth Date: 11 Feb 1861
Baptism Date: 12 Feb 1861
Parish: Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette
Father's Name: Patricii Finnan
Mother's Name Ellena Dunlavey



Margarita Finnan
Birth Date: 23 Nov 1879
Baptism Date: 30 Nov 1879
Parish: St Sylvester (Sylvestri)
Father's Name: Patricic Finnan
Mother's Name: Helenae Dunleavey



Margarita Laciae Finnan
Birth Date: 19 Aug 1896
Baptism Date: 23 Aug 1896
Parish: St Sylvester (Sylvestri)
Father's Name: Joannis Finnan
Mother's Name: Joannae Lacey


Joannes Leo Finnan
Birth Date: 5 Aug 1903
Baptism Date: 8 Aug 1903
Parish: St Sylvester (Sylvestri)
Father's Name: Joannis Finnan
Mother's Name: Joanna Lacey


Helena Maria Finnan
Birth Date: 31 May 1906
Baptism Date: 5 Jun 1906
Parish: St Sylvester (Sylvestri)
Father's Name: Joannis Finnan
Mother's Name: Joannae Lacey

children of Patrick Finnan
Gulielmus = William
Margarita = Margaret

children of John and Jane Finann
Margarita Laciae Finnan = Margaret Lacey Finnan
Joannes Leo Finnan = John Leo
Helena Maria Finnan= Ellen May

the census '11
RG14; Piece: 22121
44 Latimer Street
John Finnan 44 store keeper, oil dealers
Jane Finnan 39
Margaret Finnan 14 general clerk, oil dealers
Florence Finnan 10
John Leo Finnan 7
Ellen M Finnan 4
William G Finnan 1

John and Jane married 15 yrs, 6 children born, 5 living 1 died

Simone x