LiverpoolKirkdale 89 lambeth Rd Arthur Beyer y 1900 ShipCook

[Abeyer]

Wow ... this is so amazing. Thanks for all your help Mary and Tina ... this has changed the I see things. Mary and Tina !
I will for sure order the marriage certificate for my Great Great Grandfather and Mother ! I am still shaking my head that he is Russian, it does not surprise me ... just think its cool.

Tina this Gores/Kellys Directory is it free, or do I need to pay to find out where the Beyer family lived.?
I am also looking to find out Where the Beyer Family lived in Ellesmere Shopshire. Gottlieb Ferdinand Beyer would have lived there. Is there a link to an Ellesmere district website you could provide.

Its snowing here like mad too ! We are in a weather warming advisory. You dont normally get snow in England do you ?
Alane

[Hilary]

I don't think Gottlieb ever lived in Ellesmere it was Louisa who lived there after his death. The census entries may give and address or a partial address.

Louisa is in Christleton Cheshire in 1841 in Pepper Street
Thomas Pickering 60 independent
Arabella 55
Louisa 15
John 15

all theses born in Cheshire ages rounded down to the nearest 5
Sarah Jones 20 Female servant not born in county

AND
Ferdinand Beyer or Boyer 25 merchant born F (foreign parts)

So she marries the lodger they move to liverpool he dies and she moves to Ellemsere.

Hilary
ed Officer

[Abeyer]

Hi Hilary,
I knew the family dirt would come out somewhere. Interesting, she remarried the lodger.

Sorry I am a little confused. Is Arabella 55 ( Louisa's Mother) and John 15 is her brother. So her maiden name was not Pickering. ? So she was a ____, then a Beyer, then a Pickering. ?

Maybe Louisa and Gottlieb were "well to do" $$$ if they had a servant ?
I just assumed they were poor.

Alane

[Abeyer]

Duh. Sorry I see now Louisa is a Pickering First from Birth.
So who were their children ? Now doubt Arthur Beyer my Great Grandfather. But did he have siblings?
Alane:)

[Tina]

Hi again 1894
Directories lists only the head of the household so not
of much use to you looking for other family members.
Not available to purchase.

Tina

[Hilary]

To find the children and addresses etc you need to have a look at the census entries 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891, 1901 Search under Louisa beyer bn Cheshire. In the 1851 she is indexed as Luisa Payer.

She was apparently the daughter of Thomas and Arabella Pickering - she marries My Bayer who appears to be in their house on the night of the 1841 census moves to Walton on the Hill Liverpool and then on his death moves to Ellesmere Shropshire.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Tina]

1854 Gores/Kellys Directory

Gottlieb Ferdinand Beyer
Merchant (general)
"Ashleigh" Walton Breck, Everton
Office: 12 Rumford Place(off Chapel St) Lpool.

Walton Breck was a district within Everton & part of Walton on the Hill, St Mary's.

Tina

[Abeyer]

Hi Tina and Hilary,
I think I found a picture of the office where Gottlieb Beyer was a Merchant.
http://www.herzogandassociates.co.uk/findus.html

I found a Family called Pickering in Christleton Cheshire. But I do not see Louisa name, other than an Aunt that loved to the States.

Everything seems to add up with this Pickering family, from the Ellesmere connection, to their Wallesley Connnection. You also said Thomas Pickering was her father, and their is a Thomas Pickering in Christleton Cheshire. But I dont see the name Arabella there.

Maybe there is more than one Pickering family in the area. But its weird how some many things seem to connect to this family. Maybe she was the black sheep ... marrying Gottlieb ?

So they lived in Walton on the Hill Liverpool and maybe had a shop there, and the a shop at 12 Rumford place. Gottlieb dies and then Louisa moved to Ellesmere, with Arthur and the other children.

Sounds like they had some money, then Gottlieb dies and she is on her own. That would be why Arthur becomes a Ships cook I guess .. they must have sold the business in order to stay afloat. However if Louisa is connected the affluent Pickering in Chistleton, makes you wonder what happened.
Alane
P.S. We just had 15 inces of snow in the last two days here in Edmonton !
How are you gals doing over there ? Still snowing ?

[Hilary]

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean.


Louisa only shows as a Pickering in the 1841 census in Christleton as this was before her marriage. After they she shows as Beyer.

HO107 Piece 90 Book 4

Pepper St Christleton Cheshire
Thomas Pickering 60 ind
Arabella Pickering 55
Louisa Pickering 15
John Pickering 15 merchants app
Sarah Jones 20 F S
Ferdinand Boyer or Beyer not sure if it's an o or an e merchant

The 1841 census does not show relationships.

To find out if she is the daughter of Thomas you will need to purchase her marriage certificate. You could also investigate Christleton Parish Registers to see if you can find a christening for her.

Hilary
ed Officer

[Hilary]

Further to my previous post her christening is on www.familysearch.org on the new Beta site

Louisa Harriet Pickering born 5 July 1821 christened 29 July 1821 parents Thomas Pickering and Arabella. At Christleton Parish Church

Her marriage is also there married on 11 November 1841 her father Thomas Pickering his father Gottlieb Beyer. Marriage at the same church.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Abeyer]

Hi Hilary & Tina
I am only guessing as to what might have happened with Louisa after Gotlieb died. And wondering if she was a member of the family below. ( I need to get the census records myself for that).
This was the Pickering family I was talking about, that I found searching the net. And wondering if it is my people.
http://www.pickeringfamilyhistory.com/family_trees.html

I do have access to records you all have right now. As said I am just searching the net for links and information. And you are kind enough to help me. And its so much information to process, that I find my head is swimming.

Do you figure buying a membership to Ancestory . com /uk would be my best bet? I am a newbe to all of this, so not as smart as you on what is the best action to take. I know now I can go to the BMD site as now I have more concrete evidence on who my relatives are, so thanks for that !

I will also go the Government website and order the Marriage Cert for Gottlieb and Louisa as I know this will point me in the right direction of her family.

Once again Thanks for all the help and insight you have all provided !
I am very happy that the Beyer family past is now making sense.
Regards Alane : )

[Hilary]

Thomas Pickering married Arabella Hodson 25 September 1810 at Christleton.

This was on www.familysearch.org

the 1851 census shows Thomas aged 73 born in Sutton parish of Eastham a retired farmer and Arabella 68 born Christleton. Thomas is a retired farmer.

A quick look on the Pickering site didn't show any obvious links. Certainly no hits for Arabella Hodson or Beyer that I could see. It's not to say they aren't but I think a lot more research is needed first.


Hilary
Ed Officer

[Abeyer]

Hi Everyone,

I have Gottilieb Ferdinand Beyer marriage document now. It looks like he was a merchant as you said, still trying to confirm what he sold. ? Might be insurance at 12 Rumford Place.

His Dad was also called Gottlieb Beyer and was a farmer. As was Louisa's father. It does not say where Gottliebs father lived ... England, Germany, or Prussia. So need to investigate that still.

Arthur also had a few brothers and sisters. One brother was born the same year as him in 1860 ... so find that a little odd. His name is Willaim Charles Henry Beyer, born April 1860. I have sent away for Arthurs b/cert so hope that will clear up some confusion.

Question: How can I confirm who Gottliebs Parents are? I have some leads but nothing concrete.

Sorry for the long winded email
Regards ALane

[MaryA]

Rumford Place has always been close to the middle of the insurance district in Liverpool so you could be right.

As to your query about Gottlieb's parents, if you mean the merchant, then the birth certificate of his brother that you have ordered will give you those, but if you mean the father Gottlieb, then it may be that you need a more specialised forum - unless any of our crew can surprise us with specialist knowledge about Russian research

[Abeyer]

Hi,

Thanks for responding. Just to clarify I am looking for Gottlieb Ferdinand Beyers parents. The marriage Certificate that Great Great Gottlieb Beyer has his father listed also with the same name. Gottlieb Beyer.

I am thinking the Beyers are from Prussia part of Germany at the time. I found a Christian Friedrich Beyer born 1771 from Koentopf, Pommerania, Prussia Germany. And his wife: Dorothea Luise Hoppe from Koentopf, Dramburg, Prussia Germany. I see one of their sons is named Gottlieb Beyer ( born april 13th 1813).

Not sure if I am on the right track ... how can one know for sure ?
Alane

[Abeyer]

Hi Everyone,
I need your help if I may. I ordered Arthur Lewis Beyers Birth cert.
As you can see below. My Great Grandfather Arthur Lewis Beyer is not connecting up with Gottlieb Ferdinand Beyer. I am wondering if indeed Gottlieb is his father ? Where do I go from here ?
Childs Forename: Arthur: Surname at Birth = Beyer
Fathers/Parents Forename = Gottlieb Ferdinand FathersSurname = Beyer
Mothers Forename = Louisa Harriett Maiden Name = Pickering
Approx- Date of Birth01-JAN-1860 Walton Lancashire England
Ordered item = Standard E/W Birth Full w/o General Registry Office

We have searched the indexes for events registered in England and Wales during the years specified (1859-1861). We have been unable to find any entry with the details you provided. " does this mean Gottlieb is not his father?
Alane

[Hilary]

I think the reason the GRO has not sent a birth certificate is that Arthur wasn't born in 1860 or a couple of years either side. His birth was registered as follows

Arthur Lewis Beyer March Quarter 1856 West Derby registration district volume 8b page 365

This is born out on the 1861 which shows

Louisa H Beyer widow 38
Anne l daur 18
Thomas son 14
Henry L son 12
William N son 10
can't read E daur 8
Louise F daur 6
Arthur L son 4

The birth registrations for all but can be found on www.freebmd.org.uk

Charles Ferdinand 1843
Thomas Ernest 1846
Henry edward 1848
William Nichols 1850
Alwinna Elizabeth 1852
Louisa Frances 1854
Arthur Lewis 1856

If you apply for Arthur Lewis giving th information I have given and filling in the form on the GRO site you should get the correct certificate.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Hilary]

I'm quite sure Arthur Lewis has the same parents as he is on the census with his siblings whose baptisms can all be found on www.familysearch.org

At St Peter's Liverpool
Annie louisa 2 nov 1842 this on www.lan-opc.org.uk amd gives the address as Baker Street West Derby Gottlieb a merchant
Charles Ferdinand 25 dec 1843 this is also on lan-opc and gives the address as Heaton Place Breck Lane Everton
Henry Edward 4 July 1848

At Walton on the Hill presumably St Mary's church
William Nicholas 31 July 1850
Alwinna 14 Oct 1852

All above parents given as Gottlieb Ferdinand and Louisa Harriet Beyer or sometimes Bayer

There is also a Jane Beher the daughter of John Ferdinand and Alice baptised at St Peter's Liverpool on 15 June 1843

[Hilary]

On the 1851 census Gottlieb says he was born Prussia and beside this is BS which stands for British Subject ie he has been naturalised - this may or may nort be true but if it is he should appear on the index for the Catalogue at the National Archives.

He dies in 1860

March Q West Derby Registration district volume 8b page 321

Depending on where he was buried there may be a gravestone that MAY be helpful.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Abeyer]

Dear Hilary,

I dont know where I went off track with Arthurs birth date. Thanks so much for clarifying and putting me back on track. I believe you are totally correct in the inforamation you provided once again. ! You are Good !

Also thanks for the added info. I have tried to find Heaton Place Breck Lane Everton but think the Road, or house ... does not exist anymore. Maybe its the football field now ? Will check out baker street ... next so neat !

I also felt Gottlieb was born in Prussia. So this is great news ... at least I was right about something. ! I suppose I could look up Gottliebs death cert maybe that will say where is buried. And that might lead to more info.

Once again Thanks so much for your help Hilary this means the world to me ! Best Regards Alane