Help with finding family on 1861 census

[Gwebb1]

Hi everyone.
I'm having difficulties finding any of this family on the 1861 census and wondered if fresh eyes could find what I can't:

Philip Trainor/Traynor/Trenor (or something similar); born in Ireland abt. 1816
Susan Trainor etc; born in Ireland abt 1821
Margaret - daughter of the above - born Newry abt 1839/40
Ann - another daughter - born in Ireland about 1841
Peter - son of Philip and Susan - born in Liverpool abt 1846
Michael - another son - born in Liverpool about 1847
Catherine - another daughter - born in Liverpool about 1857
Mary - another daughter - born in Liverpool about 1859

I have found the family on the 1851 census living in Maghull Street.
I think I have found Margaret on the 1861 census transcribed as 'Turner' and working as a servant in Circus Street.
Margaret married George Forrest in 1862 and gave her address as Shaw's Alley.
I think I have found Susan and Peter on the 1871 census living in Essex Street - Susan is transcribed as Sussannah Faines!) and I think Philip was living in Brindley Street (transcribed as 'Traiver').
Susan and Peter are still in Essex Street on the 1881 census (now transcribed as Traner). Susan is described as a widow and I think Philip died in 1872 and she died in 1882.

Can anyone find any of these people between 1851 and 1871 please?

Regards,
Glen

[dickiesam]

Hi Glen,
Re:

I think I have found Susan and Peter on the 1871 census living in Essex Street - Susan is transcribed as Sussannah Faines!) and I think Philip was living in Brindley Street (transcribed as 'Traiver').
Susan and Peter are still in Essex Street on the 1881 census (now transcribed as Traner).

Just to confirm these are the families you found?

1871? RG10 Piece 3800 Folio 18 Page 30
Address: 48 Essex Street, Toxteth Park, West Derby.
Susannah Trainor Head Md 50 1821 Labourer's wife - Ireland
Peter Trainor Son 24 1847 Labourer - Lancashire
Catherine Trainor Dtr 14 1857 - Lancashire
Mary Trainor Dtr 12 1859 - Lancashire

1881? RG11 Piece 3641 Folio 60 Page 53
Address: 48 Essex Street, Toxteth Park, West Derby
Susan Traner Head Widow 60 1821 - Ireland
Peter Traner Son U/m 29 1852 General Labourer - Liverpool

Since the address is the same I assume this is 'the' Susan in both censuses which indicates Phillip died before April 1881.
This appears to be the most likely hit..
Death: PHILIP TRAINOR
Birth year: 1819 [calculated from given age]
Age: 52 [probably a best guesstimate by the informant]
Death year/qtr: 1871 / Sep
District: LIVERPOOL; Volume: 8B; Page: 122

[Bertieone]

Hi Glen,
Try this one,
1861,
RG9 P2701 F21 Page37,

Philip Srainer 43
Susanha Srainer 34
Margaret Srainer 20
Peter Srainer 14
Micheal Srainer 12
Phillip Srainer 8
John Srainer 6
Catharine Srainer 4
Mary Srainer 2

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... h=23092881

[Karen]

I also have a Traynor family - the range of spellings can be frustrating!

1861 Census
PIECE: 2701
FOLIO: 21
PAGE NUMBER: 37

They've been transcribed as 'Srainer'

44 John Street

Philip / head / mar / 42 / Labourer (dock) / Ireland
Susanha / wife / mar / 34 / Ireland
Margaret / daur / un / 20 / House servant / Ireland
Peter / son / un / 14 / Errand boy to ...? / Liverpool
Michael / son / un / 12 / Errand boy to ...? / Liverpool
Phillip / son / 8 / Scholar / Liverpool
John / son / 6 / Scholar / Liverpool
Catharine / daur / 4 / Scholar / Liverpool
Mary / daur / 2 / Scholar / Liverpool

[Karen]

Hi Glen,
Try this one,
1861,
RG9 P2701 F21 Page37,

Just beat me to it!

[Bertieone]

Re: DS's find,



Philip Traynor
Birth Year:
abt 1819
Age:
52
Burial,
4 Sep 1871
Walton Park
Coroners Order, Southern Hospital

[Bertieone]

1871,
RG10; Piece: 3793; Folio: 46; Page: 17;

Philip Traiver (Trainor) Lodger, Labourer.

Declared as Widower.

[dickiesam]

Great find Bert. It would appear from the fact that Phillip is not with his wife and family on Census night but lodging elsewhere, that he may have been separated from Susan and claimed he was widowed.
1871: RG10 Piece 3793 Folio 46 Page 17
Address: House 4, Court 4, Brindley Street, Toxteth Park
Philip Trainer Lodger Widowed 52 1819 Labourer - Ireland

Edit! Just noticed you beat me to it.

[Gwebb1]

You've done it again folks - you have found the family I was looking for on the 1861 census.
Reassuring to know you were thinking along the same lines as me, Dickiesam, with regards to Philip's address in 1871 and his possible death. I agree; I think the 1871 death record does probably refer to him (but I wrote 1872 by mistake in my first post).

Let me run this past you all and see if any of you have any ideas what I should be doing next. My ancestor is the Margaret Elizabeth Trenor who married George Forrest in June 1862. She gave her address as Shaw's Alley and her father as Philip Trenor, a labourer. She gives her age as 21. Subsequent censuses give her as having been born in Ireland about 1843/44 and the 1871 census gives Newry Co. Down as her place of birth. She died 1891 and the age given was 47.

Now here's the thing. I have recently found records showing 3 of her children were given Catholic baptisms at St Peter's Priory; the same place her younger siblings were baptised. Margaret's maiden name on the baptism records is clearly given as Trainor or Traynor. The godmother of her eldest son was Susannah Traynor (her own mother?) and the godfather of her eldest daughter was Peter Trainor (her own brother?). Am I looking at the right family or not on the censuses? I was hoping the 1861 address might have helped but it doesn't.

Also, the Margaret Turner (d.o.b 1843) I found in Circus Street on the 1861 census was born in Newry but the 'Srainer' entry would mean I would have to discount her.

How else can I make a link between my Margaret and the daughter of Philip and Susan? All ideas gratefully received, especially as this has been a 'brick wall' for many years!

Regards,
Glen

[Karen]

My ancestor is the Margaret Elizabeth Trenor who married George Forrest in June 1862.

Who are the witnesses to the marriage? They may provide a clue.

[Karen]

Two of the children's marriages?

[Gwebb1]

Nothing doing, I'm afraid Karen. The witnesses were a John Harpur (there are a few in Liverpool on the 1861 census born about 1840 but nothing that strikes any bells with me) and a Sarah E. ? - I cannot decipher the last name.

Your newspaper find was good, Bertieone. It will add a bit of colour to my write-ups if I can make that elusive link!

I've just looked at the marriages you have posted, Karen. Definitely the same family as on the censuses. None of the names look familiar (aprt from the Trainor ones) but they got married at the same church as George Forrest and Margaret.

Regards.
Glen