Irish Brick Wall

[steveflan]

I've got stuck on trying to find some Irish records (no doubt looking in the wrong place), for the following:

John FLANAGAN, born about 1818 in Ireland (possibly County Down)

He married Ellen (Ellenor) HEWSON (HUESTON/HEUSTON). I'm not sure of the year of marriage, but based on the children's details, I would suspect that they married in Ireland around 1839.

I have found 8 children so far, based purely on census records.

Mary - born around 1839 in Ireland
William - born around 1841 in Ireland
George - born around 1843 in Ireland
Elizabeth - born around 1846 in Ireland
James - born 20 November 1848 in Liverpool
Henry - born 17 June 1851 in Liverpool
Nancy - born 1 December 1854 in Liverpool
Helen - born 26 February 1857 in Liverpool
(All of the Liverpool born children were baptised in St. Patrick's Church.)

These dates would suggest that John and Ellen moved from Ireland to Liverpool with their family sometime between 1846 and 1848 - like many, many others.

I've managed to find the following Census data:

1851 (HO107/Piece 2186/Folio 331/Page 46) at 15 Croston Street
John Flanagan, Labourer
Ellen Flanagan
Mary Flanagan
William Flanagan
George Flanagan
Elizabeth Flanagan
James Flanagan

1861 (RG9/Piece 2697/Folio 18/Page 37) at 1 Croston Street
John Flanagan, Porter
Ellen Flanagan
Mary Flanagan
William Flanagan
George Flanagan
Elizabeth Flanagan
James Flanagan
Henry Flanagan
Helen Flanagan

1871 (RG10/Piece 3793/Folio 34/Page 61) at Court 4, Worthing Street
John Flanagan, Dock Labourer
Ellen Flanagan
Henry Flanagan
Helen Flanagan
Mary A Gorman (this may be Mary Flanagan)

1881 (RG11/Piece 3634/Folio 65/Page 31) at 35 Worthington Street
John Flanagan, Dock Labourer
Ellen Flanagan
Helen Flanagan
Henry Flanagan (now married)
Catherine Flanagan (Henry's wife - originally Catherine SHEILDS)
Mary Ellen Flanagan
George Flanagan
Julia Flanagan
John H Flanagan
Walter Flanagan
Margaret A Flanagan
(the last 6 people are Henry & Catherine's children)

I'm trying to find birth and marriages for John Flanagan and Ellen Hewson to see if I can take this line any further back.

Anybody got any ideas where else I can search? I've tried all the main Irish records I know of.

[MaryA]

Is there any chance that the older ones, born Ireland, are still living in 1911, sometimes that census gives a little more explicit birthplace than the earlier ones.

[steveflan]

Mary

I did think of that, but I haven't been able to locate them yet. There was an entry on one of the earlier census returns for John and Ellen where they gave County Down as their birthplace, but that's the best I've been able to tie down.

[MaryA]

At least that's one clue.

[Blue70]

William Flanagan born c1841 in Down, Ireland at 123 Wolfe Street in Toxteth on the 1871 Census with a second household called Doran also from Down, Ireland. This Doran family according to Roots Ireland were RC from Kilkeel, Upper Mourne, County Down.


Blue

[dickiesam]

He married Ellen (Ellenor) HEWSON (HUESTON/HEUSTON)

Hi,
Can you tell us where the surname spelling variations come from and where the 'Ellinor' occurs?

[steveflan]

Just to clarify, John's approximate year of birth, 1818, was based on Census returns, which I know isn't always the most reliable birth data to work with. Ellen Hewson's approximate date of birth is 1821, again based on Census returns.

DS - all name variants come from the St. Patrick baptism records. I went with Hewson, originally, as that was the name given on the first record I found (probably not the proper thing to do).

I've taken Ellen as that was the name always given on the Census returns, which naturally could have been a more commonly used shorter form of Ellenor.

[Blue70]

William's marriage on 12 Jan 1869 to Harriet Murphy formerly Savage at St Patrick's is on Ancestry under surname spelling O'Flanigan. Father named as John and disappointingly William given as "of Liverpool" rather than his birth place. A tree on Ancestry wrongly links William's birth to a William John Flannigan born on 25 Jan 1841 in Dromore Parish, Down, Ireland to William Flannigan and Anne Wilkinson.



Blue

[Blue70]

Could the widowed Mary Doran on the 1871 Census be William Flanagan's aunt?

Miss Mary HUSTON, Kilkeel, married John Doran 12 Oct 1842 at the Catholic church

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... HomHoz.htm


Blue

[dickiesam]

Have you been able to locate marriages and where these Irish-born children are in later censuses? If they survived to 1911, as MaryA suggested, there's a good chance of more detail about where they were born.
Mary - born around 1839 in Ireland
William - born around 1841 in Ireland
George - born around 1843 in Ireland
Elizabeth - born around 1846 in Ireland

There is always the possibility that they may not have been born in Co. Down.