Trying to find a mother

[JohnnyO]

Hi, hope you are all keeping safe and well.

I am revisiting my great grandmother's line and trying to pin her down by looking at other members of her family. Catherine Traynor/Treanor was born in Dundalk, Louth, so I was looking for her mother in both English and Irish 1901 census records. There is a Bridget Treanor living in Louth in 1901 and with her are a son and a granddaughter. This where I need your help!

Elizabeth Broughton is in the return as the granddaughter, age 6 and born in Liverpool. As my great grandmother did not marry until June 1901 I am thinking that this may be one of her sisters (Mary or Bridget, but nothing concrete). Looking at GRO and FreeBMD, I cannot find the link between the only Elizabeth Broughton in the records born at that time. GRO has 2 Elizabeth Gladys Broughtons, one born in 1893 and one in 1895. GRO has a death record in Q3 1983 for a Elizabeth Gladys Victoria Broughton, no District of Death but as the record is 08B then it must be Liverpool. Both have a mother's maiden name of Fowles, not Treanor or Traynor. I have checked FreeBMD and Irish records for a marriage of Fowles and Treanor, thinking maybe the husband had died and she remarried, but could not find anything.

The fact that Elizabeth is living with her grandmother leads me to think that maybe the mum had died or was still working in Liverpool, or maybe even born out of wedlock. I then cannot trace Elizabeth in either the 1911 Irish or English census, and no death record for her in Ireland. I cannot see a death record between 1901 and 1911 in England. There are a few Elizabeth's marrying in Liverpool from 1915 onward, but hard to prove.

Many thanks, John

[Bertieone]

Elizabeth-Bessie

[JohnnyO]

Bert thank you so much for that, I never even considered looking for Bessie, no wonder I couldn't find her!. Proleek is just outside Dundalk and where she was in 1901 as well.

Thomas Treanor, my great great grandfather who I have been searching for has popped up as a death in Proleek in 1881, so starting to join the dots a bit. I now just need to find why Elizabeth is still there in 1911 and who her mother was and what happened to her.

My great grandmother also has a birth record in Proleek in 1869 so that is another dot joined!

I love this forum

[Bertieone]

John,

This marriage must be of interest,

[Bertieone]

Is this Patrick's baptism, 1901/1911 census?



EDIT,Yes, I see it is from Catherine's baptism.

[Bertieone]

John,

This baby died 1894, aged 1.?

[MaryA]

Well done Bert, got your teeth into it good style.

Sometimes I try a process of elimination so I looked at a death of a George Broughton in Prescot, however the age was way out really, but since there was a Bessie Frances born in that district in 1894, but the mmn is Collier and the parents appear to be William Joseph Broughton and Ellen Collier.

So that's one definitely out.

[Bertieone]

Another to look at,

Mary Kate Broughton, 1891, Birkenhead, mmn, Traynor.

Perhaps a baptism elsewhere.

[Bertieone]

If Mary Kate is part of your family, this George is the only one in Birkenhead around that time,

Name:
George Braughton? possible transcription error
Gender:
Male
Age:
29
Relationship:
Servant
Birth Year:
1862
Birth Place:
Old Radford, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish:
Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish:
St John
Residence Place:
Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Registration district:
Birkenhead
Sub registration district:
Birkenhead
RG12 P2884 F58 P1

[MaryA]

Mary Kate Broughton, 1891, Birkenhead, mmn, Traynor.

Perhaps a baptism elsewhere.

Nope nor a possible marriage that I can see in either Cheshire or Liverpool. No RC burial for George which I might have expected if he was our family.

[Bertieone]

If he was put in with someone else, his name may not be in the burial records?

[JohnnyO]

Bertie and Mary, many thanks for your help, it is certainly helping to join the dots!

I cannot see a marriage record either in England or Ireland for George and Mary. I notice that in the 1891 census, George is showing as single, and Mary Kate was born in Q2 1891.

Interestingly, whilst writing this I have looked for Mary in 1891 and found her living as a boarder in Old Chester Road. Birthplace Candy, Louth and born 1868 which tallies roughly within 5 years. She is shown as married. Also in the household is infant Broughton, female and x days old.

Even more interestingly that in the same household is a Minnie Traynor, grandchild, age 12 and born in Tranmere. She is under an entry for Thomas Punch and his wife Mary A and their son Thomas. If you get a chance could you please have a look at RG12/P2889, F12 P17 and see if you think that she is linked to the Punch family. The only thing is that Mr & Mrs Punch (no pun intended) were born in England. I have looked for a birth record on GRO for Minnie, but cannot see one. There are however a few birth records in Birkenhead for Traynor and Treanor. My great grandmother had a son Patrick, but he was in Louth in 1901 and 1911 and probably looking after the farm as Thomas Treanor died in 1881 in Proleek. That is where Thomas's widow, son Patrick and Elizabeth Broughton are in 1901 and 1911.

[MaryA]

If he was put in with someone else, his name may not be in the burial records?

There should always be an entry for a burial, I have only been able to check online, most RC burials would have taken place in Ford or perhaps at a later date in the RC area of Anfield, it might take further investigation through the microfilms to find an entry - perhaps Johnny could investigate those on familysearch, Blue has put direct links to many of the Liverpool ones.

[MaryA]

Interestingly, whilst writing this I have looked for Mary in 1891 and found her living as a boarder in Old Chester Road. Birthplace Candy, Louth and born 1868 which tallies roughly within 5 years. She is shown as married. Also in the household is infant Broughton, female and x days old.

Even more interestingly that in the same household is a Minnie Traynor, grandchild, age 12 and born in Tranmere. She is under an entry for Thomas Punch and his wife Mary A and their son Thomas. If you get a chance could you please have a look at RG12/P2889, F12 P17 and see if you think that she is linked to the Punch family. The only thing is that Mr & Mrs Punch (no pun intended) were born in England.

I think I'm getting confused but looking for this Mary you detailed above I only found in 8 Bebington Road (next street enumerated to Old Chester Road) a Mary Traynor, Single 21, General Servant, born Louth Ireland.

[Bertieone]

Mary Kate needed looking in to, I would think George born in Liverpool would need more attention?

Am I wrong in thinking Catherine is the mother of Elizabeth Broughton and also possibly George, both born out of wedlock?

[MaryA]

Bert and I may be on two different lines which might get confusing, but I'll post about the Punches.

1881 at 5 Brougham Street, Tranmere
James Punch, Head, M 57, Navy Pensioner, Kent, Dover
Mary A Wife, M 49, Hants, Portsmouth
Mary A (something crossed through) Traynor, Daughter M, 23 Mate's Wife, Hants, Portsmouth
Thomas Punch, son 5, Scholar, Cheshire, Tranmere
Minie Punch, granddaughter, 1 Carnarvonshire, Bangor
Ellinor Traynor, granddaughter, 7 months, Cheshire, Tranmere

GRO entry
TRAYNOR, ELEANOR THOMASINA PEARSON PUNCH
GRO Reference: 1880 S Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 554

Marriages Dec 1879
PUNCH Mary Ann Liverpool 8b 211
TRAYNOR Robert Pearson Liverpool 8b 211

I think this lead is following the wrong gender, comments required?

[Bertieone]

Mary Kate Broughton was the child, mothers maiden name, Traynor, 1891, I wasn't suggesting George Broughton was the husband of Mary Kate but a possible father.

[JohnnyO]

Thanks again for the help, I will digest it in a while, I still have my normal day job to do .

One thing I just realised, George Broughton in Wirral in the 1891 return born Retford is single whereas Mary Broughton is shown as married, so must be a different George Broughton.

I cannot find a burial record for young George in 1894 yet.

Good spot Bert on finding Mary Traynor in Bebington Road. If she is single, who is the married Mary Broughton boarding at Old Chester Road with daughter Elizabeth?

Interesting on the 1881 return for the Punch family. I also haven't a clue as to who Robert Pearson Traynor is who married Mary Ann Punch and had Eleanor. Looking on FMP I can see the marriage of Robert and Mary Ann Punch. Although Robert's father is called Thomas, this one was a mariner and not a farmer like 'my' Thomas. Looks like the Puny is not who I'm looking for.

[MaryA]

No, my post about the Punch family was intended to rule them out, not rule them in.

[Bertieone]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/ ... 1584699572

This one John has seen.