Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS

Family History in the Hundred of West Derby
It is currently 21:43:32 Wed 13/Dec/2017

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Indian records help
PostPosted: 23:44:51 Sun 12/Mar/2017 
Offline
Member

Joined: 10:54:32 Sat 12/Sep/2015
Posts: 217
Location: Crosby, Merseyside
Member #: 8811
Hi all, my wife's paternal great grandmother was born in Poona in 1852. I have a copy of her record showing birth and baptism at Camp Poona on Feb 14th. Her father, James Butler was a Sergeant in the 86th Regiment and her mother was Elizabeth. I have no other information about them apart from this.

Is there any way of finding out which church she was baptised at (the record indicated church as opposed to private service). Is there also any way of finding out her father's military record and whether they married whilst he was in service? I've attached a screenshot of the front page of the birth and baptismal record.

Many thanks, John.

Image

_________________
Names - Orrett, Orritt, Ross, McCabe, Keeley, Bullen, White, Leatham, McKeon, Bilsbarrow, Yates, Sennett, Sinnett, Traynor, Ashton


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 09:22:12 Mon 13/Mar/2017 
Offline
Member

Joined: 11:19:45 Mon 17/Sep/2012
Posts: 3107
Member #: 8401
I found Johanna, unfortunately no marriage as yet.

http://indiafamily.bl.uk/ui/Sources.aspx

http://indiafamily.bl.uk/ui/FullDisplay ... -000038543

Sibling?

http://indiafamily.bl.uk/ui/FullDisplay ... -000038437

_________________
Bert


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 09:44:18 Mon 13/Mar/2017 
Offline
Member

Joined: 10:54:32 Sat 12/Sep/2015
Posts: 217
Location: Crosby, Merseyside
Member #: 8811
Bertieone wrote:


Thanks Bert. The records for Johanna are what I have found. Looking at FMP, there is the birth of a James Butler in Waterford in 1833. Johanna Butler married into a Waterford family in 1885. I know its a long shot but I'll investigate. I know most of the info on Johanna from her marriage onward.

Can you decipher the name of the camp at the bottom of the page at all? All of my variations in Google have brought zero response. Thanks, John

_________________
Names - Orrett, Orritt, Ross, McCabe, Keeley, Bullen, White, Leatham, McKeon, Bilsbarrow, Yates, Sennett, Sinnett, Traynor, Ashton


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 09:56:53 Mon 13/Mar/2017 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 21:29:54 Thu 24/Mar/2005
Posts: 12958
Location: Kirkby
Member #: 6532
Just wondering if any of these links might be useful to you.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9542

_________________
MaryA
Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 13:35:05 Mon 13/Mar/2017 
Offline
Member

Joined: 10:54:32 Sat 12/Sep/2015
Posts: 217
Location: Crosby, Merseyside
Member #: 8811
MaryA wrote:
Just wondering if any of these links might be useful to you.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9542


Thanks Mary, have had a quick look but no more success yet :cry:

_________________
Names - Orrett, Orritt, Ross, McCabe, Keeley, Bullen, White, Leatham, McKeon, Bilsbarrow, Yates, Sennett, Sinnett, Traynor, Ashton


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 12:46:43 Wed 15/Mar/2017 
Offline
Member

Joined: 23:47:24 Thu 05/Feb/2004
Posts: 49
Location: Sydney, Australia
Member #: 8426
Quote:
Can you decipher the name of the camp at the bottom of the page at all? All of my variations in Google have brought zero response. Thanks, John

Camp Nusseerabad. It is near Ajmer, Rajasthan, India. Presidency of Bengal.

Some background reading here:-

http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/a ... mutiny.htm
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XEEo ... &q&f=false
http://archive.org/stream/indianempireh ... 3/mode/1up
____________
Louis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 00:09:55 Thu 16/Mar/2017 
Offline
Member

Joined: 10:54:32 Sat 12/Sep/2015
Posts: 217
Location: Crosby, Merseyside
Member #: 8811
louis wrote:
Quote:
Can you decipher the name of the camp at the bottom of the page at all? All of my variations in Google have brought zero response. Thanks, John

Camp Nusseerabad. It is near Ajmer, Rajasthan, India. Presidency of Bengal.

Some background reading here:-

http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/a ... mutiny.htm
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XEEo ... &q&f=false
http://archive.org/stream/indianempireh ... 3/mode/1up
____________
Louis


Hi Louis, many thanks for the response and the links. Looking at a map, Camp Nusseerabad is about 1,00 kilometres from Poona. Is it possible that the camp was in Poona and called Camp Nusseerabad, or would the army records office be in Poona where the birth would be recorded, regardless of where the birth actually was?

_________________
Names - Orrett, Orritt, Ross, McCabe, Keeley, Bullen, White, Leatham, McKeon, Bilsbarrow, Yates, Sennett, Sinnett, Traynor, Ashton


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 04:01:59 Fri 17/Mar/2017 
Offline
Member

Joined: 23:47:24 Thu 05/Feb/2004
Posts: 49
Location: Sydney, Australia
Member #: 8426
The screenshot is for Funerals so I don't think it has anything to do with the Baptisms at Camp Poona. Perhaps the document was microfilmed out of sequence, but the only way to confirm would be to trawl through the microfilm.

James Butler was in Poona in March, 1851, so it is likely he was stationed there up to the birth of Johanna. The GRO hold British Army Records and you could apply for her Birth Certificate to confirm exactly where she was born. She was Baptised in a Roman Catholic Church eight days after birth and likely to be the place where she was born. St. Patrick's Cathedral, Poona, is the oldest Catholic Church in Poona and would be my starting point.

To find out more about James Butler you could trace the movements of the 86th Regiment and through the Army Muster Rolls.

Hope this helps
_________________
Louis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 15:03:07 Fri 17/Mar/2017 
Offline
Member

Joined: 10:54:32 Sat 12/Sep/2015
Posts: 217
Location: Crosby, Merseyside
Member #: 8811
louis wrote:
The screenshot is for Funerals so I don't think it has anything to do with the Baptisms at Camp Poona. Perhaps the document was microfilmed out of sequence, but the only way to confirm would be to trawl through the microfilm.

James Butler was in Poona in March, 1851, so it is likely he was stationed there up to the birth of Johanna. The GRO hold British Army Records and you could apply for her Birth Certificate to confirm exactly where she was born. She was Baptised in a Roman Catholic Church eight days after birth and likely to be the place where she was born. St. Patrick's Cathedral, Poona, is the oldest Catholic Church in Poona and would be my starting point.

To find out more about James Butler you could trace the movements of the 86th Regiment and through the Army Muster Rolls.

Hope this helps
_________________
Louis


Thanks for the info Louis. The screenshot above is on the back of the birth records which I'll attach below. I think as you say that the second sheet was microfilmed when the page was folded over. Curses, Photobucket isn't playing :evil:. I have a copy of the record sheet and the transcript from the Indian Office Family History search, and it states she was born in Poona and the ceremony was held in a church, not privately. I will certainly look through the muster rolls as I know nothing about her parents.

Just thinking, James Butler may have been Irish, so no GRO birth records, and no trace yet in irishgenealogy.ie. I have had a quick look at The National Archive and can only find one relevant entry for a James Butler born in Carlow, covering the period 1831 to 1853. He was in the 86th foot regiment, no reference to rank, although the birth record states he was a Sergeant. Looking at FMP through the link from The National Archive, he was medically discharged, but had previously been court marshalled about 5 times. I can't read a lot of the report. Interesting if it is the same guy, he was a Sergeant too!

Just a post script. I have ordered a certificate from GRO for overseas births for Johanna, so will wait and see what happens. Reading the discharge document on FMP has him as a Sergeant and being released on 4th November 1852 as medically discharged. Maybe they were glad to get rid of him! His number in the 86th was 728.

Wonderful help, thanks again.

_________________
Names - Orrett, Orritt, Ross, McCabe, Keeley, Bullen, White, Leatham, McKeon, Bilsbarrow, Yates, Sennett, Sinnett, Traynor, Ashton


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 15:54:27 Sat 29/Apr/2017 
Offline
Member

Joined: 10:54:32 Sat 12/Sep/2015
Posts: 217
Location: Crosby, Merseyside
Member #: 8811
Well that was a disappointing result :( . I finally received my certificate, which was a transcript, and not a photocopy of the original. It has the parents surname as Butter, not Butler, and the mother as Ellen, not Elizabeth. Unfortunately it does not have a maiden name either, so I am £9.25 worse off and with no new information :-(.

_________________
Names - Orrett, Orritt, Ross, McCabe, Keeley, Bullen, White, Leatham, McKeon, Bilsbarrow, Yates, Sennett, Sinnett, Traynor, Ashton


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 22:14:30 Sun 30/Apr/2017 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: 22:27:08 Sun 17/May/2009
Posts: 1960
Member #: 4335
A trip down to London to the British Library India records, they have all births death and marriages for those who served in India.

_________________
Member 4335 KatieFD
Strays Co-ordinator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 22:16:06 Sun 30/Apr/2017 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: 22:27:08 Sun 17/May/2009
Posts: 1960
Member #: 4335
Have you searched the service records on FMP?

_________________
Member 4335 KatieFD
Strays Co-ordinator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indian records help
PostPosted: 09:52:01 Mon 01/May/2017 
Offline
Member

Joined: 10:54:32 Sat 12/Sep/2015
Posts: 217
Location: Crosby, Merseyside
Member #: 8811
Thanks for the help Katie. Am I correct in thinking though that if the transcript does not have a maiden name, then then the original in the British Library won't either?
I found the baptismal record for their daughter in Poona in 1852 on FMP (my wife's great grandmother) which I was originally looking for, but nothing on the parent's marriage on the site. It may be that they married in Ireland before he joined up in 1831.

_________________
Names - Orrett, Orritt, Ross, McCabe, Keeley, Bullen, White, Leatham, McKeon, Bilsbarrow, Yates, Sennett, Sinnett, Traynor, Ashton


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group